Bugs Reports & Technical Help

[j.a.luna]

I noticed that unit of bodyguards hirdsmen have 0 shield, and they have shields and also shieldwall

[kostic]

What number do you think you should put for their shield ?

[j.a.luna]

What number do you think you should put for their shield ?

Current this unit have 20 total points about armour ( 10 armour, 10 defend skill, 0 shield) i think that it would more realistic with less body armour and more shield similar to other shields that have the same type of shield, so could be ( 8 armour, 8 defend skill, 5 shield--- 21 total points of armour),and it is good for a excepcional bodyguard foot unit. Maybe sship team have another opinion.

[Varmir]

Okay, a little rant incoming. I am fed up with the regent/usurper mechanic. I managed to get rid of the 1st and 2nd usurpers by loading 3 turns previously and sending them to their deaths, tyo avoid a civil war and losing cities that had almost finished 15 turn buildings. Really annoying and time consuming. But after their deaths, the new ruler is also an usurper at age 29, while the real Heir is 69 sitting senile to Bashrah. I really do not know how to make the real Heir Shahanshah, I do not know how to remove Usurpers, and I am really frustrated right now because I am going to lose 2 cities and I am fed up loading 3 turns prior to this. Am I missing something? When I check the family tree, it does not say anything about Usurper, just shows a crown over the head of the Heir...Nothing else.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Okay, a little rant incoming. I am fed up with the regent/usurper mechanic. I managed to get rid of the 1st and 2nd usurpers by loading 3 turns previously and sending them to their deaths, tyo avoid a civil war and losing cities that had almost finished 15 turn buildings. Really annoying and time consuming. But after their deaths, the new ruler is also an usurper at age 29, while the real Heir is 69 sitting senile to Bashrah. I really do not know how to make the real Heir Shahanshah, I do not know how to remove Usurpers, and I am really frustrated right now because I am going to lose 2 cities and I am fed up loading 3 turns prior to this. Am I missing something? When I check the family tree, it does not say anything about Usurper, just shows a crown over the head of the Heir...Nothing else.

Well, loading a game and getting rid of some nobles is not much historical, isn't it? So one should not make the player doing it. Or the game should ensure such a behaviour is useless.
However, fighting the usurpers was the major preoccupation of the rulers in the Middle Ages. The conquests beyond a few provinces were not possible because somebody would take up arms against a ruler who is far away, or if this guy would have an army under his command etc.

The usurper system exists in the Broken Crescent and in Titanium. Playing all three mods I've experienced it. In all three mods it was not clear why this occured - I think the main problem is the lack of documentation of this system. Nobody understands how it really works.

Anyway, one should treat it as a kind of coronavirus: you need to stop your conquests, you need to stay within your cities, you may devote money to upgrading settlements. At the higher difficulties it should be really tough - including losing half of your kingdom (this pheononmenon is present in the Rome 2 TW engine, or at least the Divide et Impera mod - but it's very clear there why it's happening). In Titanium I've simply ignored it, in BC and SSHIP I wouldn't go for any conquest for 30-50 turns.

[Varmir]

Well, loading a game and getting rid of some nobles is not much historical, isn't it? So one should not make the player doing it. Or the game should ensure such a behaviour is useless.
However, fighting the usurpers was the major preoccupation of the rulers in the Middle Ages. The conquests beyond a few provinces were not possible because somebody would take up arms against a ruler who is far away, or if this guy would have an army under his command etc.

The usurper system exists in the Broken Crescent and in Titanium. Playing all three mods I've experienced it. In all three mods it was not clear why this occured - I think the main problem is the lack of documentation of this system. Nobody understands how it really works.

Anyway, one should treat it as a kind of coronavirus: you need to stop your conquests, you need to stay within your cities, you may devote money to upgrading settlements. At the higher difficulties it should be really tough - including losing half of your kingdom (this pheononmenon is present in the Rome 2 TW engine, or at least the Divide et Impera mod - but it's very clear there why it's happening). In Titanium I've simply ignored it, in BC and SSHIP I wouldn't go for any conquest for 30-50 turns.

That is all very true, indeed. But it is 1207 and the Mongols are coming (I am playing Persia). I have prepared 6 master assassins and have some heavy spearmen garrissons, but it is still a clock ticking.

[kostic]

Current this unit have 20 total points about armour ( 10 armour, 10 defend skill, 0 shield) i think that it would more realistic with less body armour and more shield similar to other shields that have the same type of shield, so could be ( 8 armour, 8 defend skill, 5 shield--- 21 total points of armour),and it is good for a excepcional bodyguard foot unit. Maybe sship team have another opinion.

It is curious, in my EDU file the Royal Hirdsmen unit has 9, 10, 0 in defense and not 10, 10, 0 as in yours ...
I modify it like this for my version KCC 0.9.4;
8, 8, 5
It seems to me more balanced indeed.

PS: I also notice the skill "slung shield +1 armour" ... is that perhaps why you counted 10 points?

[Lifthrasir]

Before to set a shield value, I'd suggest you to read this thread

[Varmir]

I have ran to an issue with Cairo's population and rebellions. Atm it is the 3rd time I have taken it, exterminated the populace, and in like 8 turns it is back at 65k (from 12k) and the repression drops 20 points/turn. Is this a bug or it is an unconquerable city I will never subjugate? I play Islamic faction, so relegion is NOT an issue. There are some specific cities that require big garissons to stay calm, like Mosul, Antioch and some others. But Cairo beats them all in this aspect. I mean....from 15k populaion to 65k in 10 turns???

[Gigantus]

yes, this is a temporary building. should go away , it's a bug it hasn't. Demolishing is exactly the thing you should have done. I've added description "Demolish it if shown in-game."

May I suggest to replace the default graphic with a dedicated building picture that has the same message? That will further reduce queries in this matter should it arise - reading text instructions is a dying art nowadays

Can't make it work. When I try it, it doesn't find any problem

It probably hangs on some dubious coding, most likely in the modDB. I am assuming you don't even get the 'nothing found' message in the TXT files, that's a sure sign of it.
You need to add pause as the bottom line of the tool's BAT file - that way you can get hold of error messages by the tool. PM me if you have problems figuring out what the error messages refer to.

[Lifthrasir]

Thanks Gig. Will try

[Jurand of Cracow]

I have ran to an issue with Cairo's population and rebellions. Atm it is the 3rd time I have taken it, exterminated the populace, and in like 8 turns it is back at 65k (from 12k) and the repression drops 20 points/turn. Is this a bug or it is an unconquerable city I will never subjugate? I play Islamic faction, so relegion is NOT an issue. There are some specific cities that require big garissons to stay calm, like Mosul, Antioch and some others. But Cairo beats them all in this aspect. I mean....from 15k populaion to 65k in 10 turns???

Afaik, the problem is that it's fully built up city and if you conqer and exterminate, the growth-producing buildings are not destroyed and the innate fertility of the province makes rebuilding the potential very quickly. In the process of extermination you might have destroyed the public order buildings though - and this may be detrimental to keeping it.
This whole issue should be somehow dealt with in the future modding but more experience (or more time of more experienced modders) is needed.
Anyway, playing as Poland I need 20 units to keep Novgorod happy, so I imagine that to keep Cairo happy you need 20 non-peasant units as a garrison, plus a governor providing much public order. Eg. he should have the relevant Ministerial Office (the Muslim chancellor provides +2 Law), a Provincial Title with public order bonus, maybe some transferable ancillaries providing the similar things.

[Varmir]

Afaik, the problem is that it's fully built up city and if you conqer and exterminate, the growth-producing buildings are not destroyed and the innate fertility of the province makes rebuilding the potential very quickly. In the process of extermination you might have destroyed the public order buildings though - and this may be detrimental to keeping it.
This whole issue should be somehow dealt with in the future modding but more experience is needed.
Anyway, playing as Poland I need 20 units to keep Novgorod happy, so I imagine that to keep Cairo happy you need 20 non-peasant units as a garrison, plus a governor providing much public order. Eg. he should have the relevant Ministerial Office, and a Provincial Title with public order bonus.

Yes this is what I am planning to do. I think to garrison it with Heavy Spearmen instead of Ahdath Militia (I hope they fare better) and I sent a general with bonus to public order. Sadly, the buildings that gave public order got degraded after the extermination, so i have to build them again, but I have not so much time before they revolt again.

I think the population regeneration should be more realistic Mod plz!

[Gigantus]

Pacifying a fully grown city that has a high fertility rate to start with is a long process, I would think you will have to rinse and repeat the extermination at least for three times to bring the population down enough for all the other efforts (max garrison, governor with high order effects, rebuilding order buildings) to dominate over the penalties long enough to start improving the order. If the settlement had another religion then it's pretty much a lost cause unless you camp your priests there (and watch lots of them turn heretic) for quite some before the siege in an effort to reduce that penalty.

I often simply don't bother and simply grab the loot and leave the next turn as it is way more convenient and cheaper (unless you plan to play another 200 turns to make up for the initial expanses) to contain a rebel settlement of this size rather then dominate it. It certainly provides an ideal proving ground for generals and agents.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Yes this is what I am planning to do. I think to garrison it with Heavy Spearmen instead of Ahdath Militia (I hope they fare better) and I sent a general with bonus to public order. Sadly, the buildings that gave public order got degraded after the extermination, so i have to build them again, but I have not so much time before they revolt again.

I think the population regeneration should be more realistic Mod plz!

Ahdath is a militia (not peasants) so it won't be better than Spearmen (I think they've got the same number of soldiers).
With the rest you need to cope.

[Varmir]

The problem with Cairo is that it dows not become just a rebel settlement. It becomes a Fatimid capital, and it is the last thing you need at your doorstep!

Edit: On a second thought, I can just farm it as you said. Slaughtering them gives me something like 17k florins, so it is not that bad!

[Kilo11]

The problem with Cairo is that it dows not become just a rebel settlement. It becomes a Fatimid capital, and it is the last thing you need at your doorstep!

Edit: On a second thought, I can just farm it as you said. Slaughtering them gives me something like 17k florins, so it is not that bad!

I've had this same issue before (not with Cairo while playing as a Muslim faction, but with heartland Italian cities while playing as Venice). I think the biggest thing is to really take a careful look at what buildings are present after you take the city, and demolish specific ones with care. I remember taking Palermo a few times, and each time it regrew way too fast and I couldn't keep up with producing units to quell the uprisings. Then, I decided that rather than exterminate and do nothing else, I would instead do some careful management. I destroyed every population growth building (baths, food supply, hospitals, etc.), plus some happiness buildings (they will give population growth bonuses as well, if happiness is high enough). I then doubled down on law and order buildings, in particular the gallows, and that made it so I could dump the growth rate enough for me to slowly gain proper control. The only small risk is that by destroying all of the public health buildings, you will get an initial unrest penalty, which must be overcome. But once that's handled, this strategy works well.

One suggestion I might make to the team though would be to maybe add a second and perhaps third level to the gallows, increasing both the bonuses and maluses of that structure. In most cases, building such a thing would be outright insane (getting things to grow is usually the challenge, not stopping growth). However, there are a handful of settlements that have somewhat ridiculous base growth rates. That might well be historically accurate, in which case those rates shouldn't be changed, but a king ruling such a fruitful territory would definitely be able to cull the population when necessary. I could imagine something like the following building tree:

Gallows (just as they are)
Executioner's Square (same basic bonuses/maluses as gallows, but beefed up)
City Prison (similar bonuses/maluses as lower levels, but increased and the ratios slightly altered to reflect that a prison and a simple place for executing will have different impacts on the populace.


I also had a more involved idea about population growth in places with high base growth, and a way to utilize it in a less violent and bloody fashion. In the spirit of EBII, I thought it would be cool if there was a way to send colonists from one province to another, and to have this actually result in a population change. I don't know the exact coding setup that would be required, but I believe the general idea is definitely implementable via some buildings and scripts that would be interconnected. I believe it would require something like the following:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

- Add a building that is something like "Colonial Office". This building need not have any direct effects attached to it, though I could imagine a small law malus being attached to it, and maybe a small financial drain.
- Add a script that adds one colonist "point" at turn end if the above building has been constructed.
- Allow a "colonist group" to be sent out once a certain number of points have been accumulated. I would imagine this would be most easily implementable via a building option that would then be available everywhere (or maybe require some level of target settlement development). Once the building has been put into the queue somewhere, the option to build that colonist group would be gone from all other building browsers (as it is in EBII). And once the building finishes, it could trigger a script that adds population where the building was just built, and eliminates population from the settlement(s) that have colonial offices. Also, it would be important to have a script that then, at turn end, destroys all "colonist group" buildings, so that it can again be built in the same place once enough points have again been accumulated.

The only thing I think might be tricky, is that it might not be easy (or even possible) to have the population be taken from very specific settlements. I.e. I think it might be that population would need to be taken from any place that has built a colonial office. But someone more familiar with modding the campaign script would have to weigh in on that. Anyway, thoughts on the idea would be appreciated.

P.s. This post starts with a response to Varmir's point above, but it does begin turning into a "suggestion", so if a moderator feels it's more appropriate in that other thread, feel free to move or duplicate it over there, so further discussion is in the right place.

[Varmir]

OK, another issue. I have a Sultan Fit for the Crown, he has 6 ancillaries, he is in Nisapur, there are no revolts, there is a Great Jama, I have ALL the regions required and he is not becoming Shahanshah. Do I have to move the current governor outside the city for 1 turn??

[Jurand of Cracow]

OK, another issue. I have a Sultan Fit for the Crown, he has 6 ancillaries, he is in Nisapur, there are no revolts, there is a Great Jama, I have ALL the regions required and he is not becoming Shahanshah. Do I have to move the current governor outside the city for 1 turn??

Well, I haven't fixed this crown in the patch, it will be ready for the next version of the SSHIP. The SS6.4 / SSHIP 092 contained so many errors - and these prompted me to make the fixes - that's possible there's one and you cannot get a crown.

However, at first glance it seems to me that everything should be all right - if you've got these cities:

and I_SettlementOwner Tabriz = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Hamadan = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Alamut = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Baghdad = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Ray = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Isfahan = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Yazd = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Neyshabur = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Shiraz = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Kerman = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Konjikala = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Merv = turks
and not I_WorldwideAncillaryExists crown_persia


Because it's not yet the fixed crown, it can happen in any settlement if you've got all those settlements.

[Varmir]

Well, I haven't fixed this crown in the patch, it will be ready for the next version of the SSHIP. The SS6.4 / SSHIP 092 contained so many errors - and these prompted me to make the fixes - that's possible there's one and you cannot get a crown.

However, at first glance it seems to me that everything should be all right - if you've got these cities:

and I_SettlementOwner Tabriz = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Hamadan = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Alamut = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Baghdad = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Ray = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Isfahan = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Yazd = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Neyshabur = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Shiraz = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Kerman = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Konjikala = turks
and I_SettlementOwner Merv = turks
and not I_WorldwideAncillaryExists crown_persia


Because it's not yet the fixed crown, it can happen in any settlement if you've got all those settlements.

Here is the save. Just tell me I am not completely screwed and that the Heir will be able to get it at least. Btw, where should I send the Heir and when? I guess it is the traditional capital (Nisapur) and I should do it before the Sultan dies and get another usurper (duh). I think it is time to take a break from Seljuk campaign and go for another try with Kyev. And not touch eastern map until Mongols and Timurids dissappear. Or cheese like in this one and assassinate everything that appears.

Edit: I also think that the game constantly cuts 20k from my economy to crown him which never happens, thus inhibiting me even more.

Also when the 2nd wave of Mongols came, they instantly attacked Gorganch with 4 armies and just stood outside the walls with their tredbuchets doing nothing for the 60mins.