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Thread: SSHIP - General Discussion

  1. #121

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Got a few questions

    1 - My faction leader died a while ago and the heir has got the title of "the Usurper." I think the biological heir was killed in battle so this new leader was from outside the family, but even when I tested having him killed his successor was "the usurper." This has created a whole load of problems (loyalty is a problem, even affects movement of generals) How can I keep the political situation under control and prevent disloyalty, usurpers, etc?

    2 - I built a Templar building in my capital but it's not in the building tab. Is there a limit to the amount of buildings that will actually show up in the building tab/be usable and my capital has simply maxed out, making any new buildings do nothing, or is this a bug specific to this case?

  2. #122
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Aenima View Post

    2 - I built a Templar building in my capital but it's not in the building tab. Is there a limit to the amount of buildings that will actually show up in the building tab/be usable and my capital has simply maxed out, making any new buildings do nothing, or is this a bug specific to this case?
    I think I can answer this - there is a limit to the buildings that will show up in the tab, I think it is hardcoded at twenty. Dvk has spent years trying to figure out a way to show them all to no avail. But that doesn't mean the other buildings you build aren't taking effect - they are, they just can't be seen on the tab.

    More feedback, now about 140 turns in:

    -France got decimated by a HRE/England alliance, but they have managed to get a ceasefire. Cool to see.
    -Milan rebelled when the governor died. And then a civil revolt turned it to the HRE? It was a rebel city before, never part of the HRE - I don't think it should turn to them, much less force me into war with the HRE...
    -Turncoat armies are ruining some factions. The ERE, especially. I scanned their cities and nearly every one has a turncoat army outside it. This has led them to get dominated by the Zengids, who are fast becoming the major power in the middle east.
    -Georgia was about to be destroyed by the Seljuks, but a rebellion led them to actually take several provinces and they're now a force to be reckoned with.
    -William Wallace emerging leads Scotland to be excommunicated immediately.
    -Sicily has begun to colonise North Africa, which is nice.
    -The same Imam called for two Jihads on Tunisian and Algerian land - as if trying to unite all Islamic nations, which is awesome. The Moors decided to go all the way around Europe to get there, rather than just over the strait of gibraltar, because they refuse to fight the rebels in Morocco for some reason.
    -Many factions, particularly the Cumans, are just ignoring rebel settlements that are within or bordering their lands. Passivity is one thing...
    Last edited by Larkin; August 02, 2014 at 08:01 PM.

  3. #123

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    @Larkin: Some answers:

    -Chivalry determines how strong of a usurper one becomes I think. Not authority.

    -Papal points do not allow order recruitment. Global standing (reputation) does.

    - In my games the AI factions tend to have money to spend, although it's not perfect yet. I don't think we need a treasury, since on vh, the AI gets so many hardcoded boni it's already ridicoulous.

    - In MTW2, every city needs a faction it belongs to (can't be slave). That's why Milan has a chance to rebel to the hre. Obviously it's not that good of a solution, but it's more realistic still than milan joining pisa/venice when rebelling.

    - There is actually an attack command on all rebel settlements when a AI faction is not at war with anyone else. It somehow doesn't seem to work sometimes though. Especially in the long run.


    @Zanze: Please reade the features section. Unrest and revolts can rise again if you get f.e. a "bad" faction leader. I'm not sure about the mercenary stuff. There was somebody reporting a similar thing but i have never experienced this bug myself...


    @Aenima: When the last accepted/biological sucessor died, you need to wait some time with the usurper until he really claims the throne to himself and becomes accepted by the nobility (should take around 10 turns).

  4. #124
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Thanks for the answers MWY, that brings a lot of clarity

    Though I feel that basing order knight recruitment on global reputation is pretty silly, because your reputation will permenantly decline as soon as you go to war for the first time... I have my relations dropping just from engaging in diplomacy (seriously, I offered a map deal to the Pope which he declined, and my relations with Hungary dropped to poor) now, and I've never been an aggressor in war! Essentially meaning after about 50 turns you will never be able to recruit an order knight again.

    The trait for "dislikes Abassids" has the description for Genoa from vanilla SS.

    Rum has re-emerged due to rebellion. Keeping any faction dead forever seems like a real challenge! Though many factions seem to struggle keeping a hold of their possessions, which is clearly a public order issue.

    Milan joining the HRE has led to the HRE crumbling, after my invasion of Austria and Poland and France taking the opportunity, which is cool. HRE sued for peace and with the threat of excommunication I had little choice but to accept, since excommunication = widespread riots, as I can't lower taxes or I'll end up in the red. One really cool thing is that the HRE's armies are all very professional, trained from castles, lots of knights and sergeants rather than the usual endless spear militia armies. Great to see.
    Last edited by Larkin; August 04, 2014 at 12:52 PM.

  5. #125
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    The trait "Dislikes Abassids" has been corrected for the next release
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  6. #126
    Laetus
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Hi
    Want to say Thank You for you guys time to come up with this Great mods. I am currently playing as Rum and around 50 turns into the campaign VH,VH, 1/4 of my army simply disappear. I thought at first, it might be a random glitch, so i decided to start a new campaign with Rum again. Same thing happened, and i kept on playing. Around 60 turns ish, i recruited turkish archers and some spear units, it popped up at the start of the turn that units have been recruited. But when i selected the city where i recruited them, no units there.
    Was wondering, is this a feature in the game? where you can't recruit too much army when you empire is not big enough?
    Anyway thank You in advance.
    Best regards

  7. #127

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    hi guys
    been playing sship for months now
    i believe my version of sship is before the inclusion of the zengids and abbassids
    as always i am having a blast with the mod
    tought i have a complain, public order, it gets to a point where it's impossible to hold a newly conquered settlement, i have 0%
    public order 3 turns straight, sure it's a area mainly with a diferrent religion thought with a full stack it should hold out
    i mean the only way to conquer it is sending priests in advance, but then you wont fight the faction holding it because it will rebel
    the other way around it is to exterminate but the impact on your reputation is too much that it's not worth it
    both of the solutions are game killers for me and they break the immersion
    i really like the tought to maintain public order tought that is too much

    now i have a question as i am interested in the new version wich has 2 new factions and previously dead factions returning of the dead
    does the public order issue been tackled ? i mean can you still conquer regions far away from your capital without full religion and without extermination ?

    now some suggestions wich come from other mods:

    Recruitment- what about a HURB type of recruitment ? i mean recruitment shouldn't be dispersed that much by buildings (except perhaps orders), one building to rule
    them all i say !!!
    Autonomies- the latest versions already encourages us to make Kings our vassals (much better than conquering everything), now what about counties or duchies, there could be
    3 types of settlements (the type being represented by a building), Royal possession, colony or duchy/county (inspired by Dots and EB) the latter ones being auto managed
    evil religion- what about churches taking up money to maintain, or reducing 10% of the income of a settlement, each church building coul represent various churches around
    the region

    and a really thank you for all the hours of fun

  8. #128
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    So far, the public order is mainly depending on the distance to Capital. However, this might be adjusted with the conversion rate in the future release (not sure yet about which one).

    The main difference between HURB and SSHIP is that HURB uses 1 type of settlements and RW has merged some buildings together for recruitment if I remember correctly. In SSHIP, we have kept the towns and the castles and all buildings from Stainless Steel (once again, if I remember correctly). In order to respect the historical accuracy, we will give more impoirtance to AOR units and mercenary units in the futur.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  9. #129
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    The Mongols are nearly upon us.

    The two main things I've noticed (aside from the little things) across this campaign are:

    -AI factions are too willing to go to war and make peace. It's just a little frustrating. I keep seeing "oh, France and the HRE are at war, that'll be epic" or "oh, Poland is trying to expand into the HRE, that'll be interesting", then next turn, ceasefire. I wish they would just stick it out a bit more - and I can't help but feel a lack of money is what harms them in this regard. Factions are rarely broke - but they're never really surpassing a few thousand in the bank, which can change in a split second. This also leads to the AI trying to take cities with one or two unit armies, as opposed to substantial stacks, which not only is a bit silly and unrealistic, it reduces the epic feeling of some battles.

    -The civil war/usurper thing is just too easy to be triggered. It seems that nearly everyone is a usurper, practically every faction has a civil war, and it has become a bit silly. Even the Pope was a usurper. It's not entirely clear what you're supposed to do to prevent this - the fact it has happened in so many AI factions as well as my own seems to indicate the triggers for it are a bit too easy to be hit. Loyalty is a big issue - so many armies and generals rebel at the drop of a hat. A possible workaround would be, perhaps, to add a +loyalty bonus to the "of x blood" trait, just to give a little boost to base loyalty for most family members, nothing too major.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the mod, and have had a great time playing it. Those two things stand out as the biggest issues for me. Everything else is minor and I've been pointing them out as I go along, hope I'm being of some use

  10. #130

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    I have to agree with the usurper thing being common. I still haven't had my Doge lose his "usurper" trait after the 10 turns that were mentioned earlier. It's a title that seems to stick with them for life, and the other generals are almost all on 0 loyalty as a result.

  11. #131

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    i see download thread is updated , is in new dowload link any new fix included ? like dismounted miles swords ?

  12. #132

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    @Larkin: AI.. Well, I have the same feeling as you do. The problem is that you cannot check 1. the amount of turns a factions is at war with another faction, 2. the amount of resources (army, money, etc) a faction has. I think the money script is good, but I agree that perhaps some numbers need to be adjusted a bit to keep factions "liquid".

    I also agree with the civil war usurper thing. Although it was pretty common in medieval history. If you compare england/hre, there were almost constantly civil wars/game of thrones going on.

    @Aenima: As a player, you usually can prevent usurpers pretty easily by checking the attributes of your heirs. The usurper trait should be lost at a maximum of 15 turns I think. Perhaps I need to check the script again.

  13. #133
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    The problem is once you have one usurper it ruins the loyalty of practically all your generals.

  14. #134

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    You can't use Byg's Grim Reality in the mod ?
    I love it btw, just asking.

  15. #135
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    No you can't. BGR is not compatible as we have made our own AI, own cost system and own economic system.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  16. #136
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Is this game extremely much tougher than normal SS (even with BGR and Gracul) because I wouldn't consider myself a great player, but today on the first campaign I did I got smashed. I was Aragon and the enemy were all over me, I actually lost a campaign for the first time in Medieval 2 because my king and my heir died whilst attempting to retake Zaragoza from the Moors (I can't write down whatever they're actually called) which succeeded, I defeated the armies but lost my family and thus the campaign.

    This is awesome, though maybe Aragon is just really tough. Going to play as the Romaions now

  17. #137
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by puddingkip View Post
    Is this game extremely much tougher than normal SS (even with BGR and Gracul) because I wouldn't consider myself a great player, but today on the first campaign I did I got smashed. I was Aragon and the enemy were all over me, I actually lost a campaign for the first time in Medieval 2 because my king and my heir died whilst attempting to retake Zaragoza from the Moors (I can't write down whatever they're actually called) which succeeded, I defeated the armies but lost my family and thus the campaign.

    This is awesome, though maybe Aragon is just really tough. Going to play as the Romaions now
    I would say this mod is significantly more challenging.

  18. #138

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Thanks to the developers for their great work on this sub-mod.

    I've been an off and on MTW2 mod player for years, and it's awesome to see that people are still pushing the game forward and refining.

    I have experience with two factions now (VH/VH: Pisa-60 turns and Jerusalem-35 turns), and I've gotta say this is one of the most enjoyable mods I've ever played. It seems to strive for gameplay that's similar to some of my other favorite mods (DLV+BB/BGR) while maintaing SS's more streamlined feel.

    I love the look of the starting map. Moreover, the campaign map retained a sense of cohesion, and I've never actually witnessed a faction's destruction which was great! Gameplay was fairly challenging, but unfortunately I never felt as though my faction's survival was in the balance.

    Here are some of my opinions.

    Campaign AI: Excellent.
    *The computer makes use of the resources it has and forms armies with diverse and potent units.
    *It's capable of maneuvering units across the map efficiently to attack and defend its settlements. In my Pisa playthough Venice declared war and attacked a city causing Sicily to follow suit and simultaneously besiege four other settlements. In another instance, a crusade was declared on Tarrabulus (owned by Sicily) and the AI managed to pull several full stacks from the holy land to defend.
    *Diplomacy makes sense for the most part, although factions will take odd risks and break alliances from time to time (Venice breaking an alliance by attacking my poorly garrisoned city with a token force when I had reinforcements nearby and they had none). I particularly like the tit-for-tat limited but consistent warfare style as opposed to the full bore wars of annihilation favored by most mods.
    *Agents are used well (spies are abundant and focus on causing cities to rebel, merchants are consistently on the attack).

    Things that could use work:
    *Papal favor decays pretty rapidly, and it seems the old options to bribe the pope are gone (probably a good thing, really). It'd be nice if missions from the pope were more common and granted more favor to compensate.
    *Factions absolutely will not accept vassalage. I had a successful crusade on Sicily (which was now at war with ~ten factions), destroyed every unit and ship it had and captured every settlement but Palermo (where I had three stacks outside). The Sicilians still told me to stuff it when offered to become a protectorate. Is this intentional (to limit milking the other faction's resources)?

    Campaign Balance: Good
    *Economy is better balanced than in most mods, but still generates far too much wealth after a few settlements are taken.
    *I did some play testing, and AI does much better with another 4k or so in the King's Purse.
    *Settlement Order: Scripted unrest is too high. With a capital in Pisa, I still couldn't control Venice with a full stack and 7-chivalry general. Seems excessive. I dropped unrest to ~85% the starting value and upped squalor and this seemed to help. Religious unrest seems almost inconsequential, and could use a boost.
    *Settlement Construction: Decent tradeoffs in cost/benefit for most buildings. Would be nice to see more maluses on some buildings, however. Is it possible to create an upkeep cost for government structures (Mayor's Palace/unit training centers) without resorting to scripting?

    Battle AI: Good with some notable exceptions.
    *AI siege defense is very well scripted, and makes for some of the hardest fought battles I've ever had in MTW2.
    *Siege attack AI is good and not prone to traditional glitches (waiting passively, abonding siege engines or leaving them behind in multi-layer castle assaults). Would be great to see the AI deploy around multiple walls to force battles on additional fronts, though.
    *Field AI is overall good but sometimes attempts a shootout when grossly outnumbered by opposing archers, abandons the high ground when defending, or attempts risky frontal assaults with cavalry rather than flanking.
    *Sally AI is borked. Units will run back and forth in front of the gates for long periods of time before advancing. Might be fixed by moving the player start position further back so the AI has time to organize outside the walls.

    Unit Balance:
    *Attributes are mostly spot-on, though Crossbows might use a slight reduction in efficacy. Two units of Crossbow Militia can devastate a unit of heavy cav in short order.
    *Maintenance costs of many units could use tweaking. In particular, some militia are pretty overcosted for their efficiency (Urban Spear/Urban Crossbow) and could stand to have 75 florins knocked off. Conversely, some mercs (Crossbowmen, Spearmen, Crusader Sergeants) are absurdly cheap relative to their counterparts and could use drastic increases in maintenance (Crusader Sergeants should probably be doubled!). Otherwise its easy to form a standing army of mercs.
    *I'm also of the opinion that most basic militia (urban spear/urban crossbow, for instance) should be trainable in one round to represent calling up levies. This also makes them somewhat more prevalent relative to professionals and allows the AI to replenish lost armies more rapidly.
    *I think I read you're making AORs more important, which will be great.

    Agents
    *Spies are a little too effective at generating unrest and merchants are a little too effective at making money (especially when a simple Merchant's Guild will often generate Rank 4-5 merchants off the bat).

    For my current play through, I've made the following changes (not suggestions per se, just notes about what I'm doing to make the mod more enjoyable for me):
    1) Created a garrison script with units that change/upgrade depending on historical events (plate and gunpowder units will arrive at the appropriate times). Currently only applies to capitals.
    2) Added a script to link agent upkeep with their skill (elite Spies and Assassins would expect to be well compensated and high ranking church members would expect substantial 'donations' to maintain their favor, after all). Prevents player agent spam.
    3) Added a script to simulate beuracratic overhead. Activates when the player conquers more than five settlements, and deducts money from the treasury depending on the size of the player's empire (larger=more money) and size of the settlements. My initial playtesting indicates this makes playing the behemoth factions (HRE, ERE, Moors) substantially more challenging early game and extends the challenge for other factions.
    4) Added a script that provides the AI with additional money based on empire size. This has helped the larger factions from disintegrating immediately when they inevitably find themselves in wars on multiple fronts. Thus far, it hasn't caused any of them to really start conquering the map.
    5) Dramatically increased King's Purse for all AI factions, but especially smaller factions.
    6) Increased the movement points for all units/ships/characters. The AI seems to be able to handle it, and it makes things more realistic and less tedious.
    7) Dramatically increased (almost doubled with extra XP) AI/rebel reinforcments/starting armies/scripted sieges and removed starting mercenary units from each region to prevent rushing.
    8) Unit cost/training time changes as detailed above.
    9) Drastically increased the field cost for sieging settlements (to 2000 base).

    Again, thanks for the great work, and sorry for the long post.

    P.S. Any chance for 4TPY or a supply system?
    Last edited by Chalupaku; August 12, 2014 at 06:32 PM.

  19. #139
    puddingkip's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalupaku View Post
    *Factions absolutely will not accept vassalage. I had a successful crusade on Sicily (which was now at war with ~ten factions), destroyed every unit and ship it had and captured every settlement but Palermo (where I had three stacks outside). The Sicilians still told me to stuff it when offered to become a protectorate. Is this intentional (to limit milking the other faction's resources)?
    Excellent points over all, but I actually found that factions will offer and accept vassalage much more often than in any other mod/vanilla. The Moors had 4 vassals at a time, and they were an ai faction. Other ai factions also often got vassals and I myself managed to create three vassals who didn't immediately turn on me. It made an interesting campaing.

  20. #140

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by puddingkip View Post
    Excellent points over all, but I actually found that factions will offer and accept vassalage much more often than in any other mod/vanilla. The Moors had 4 vassals at a time, and they were an ai faction. Other ai factions also often got vassals and I myself managed to create three vassals who didn't immediately turn on me. It made an interesting campaing.
    Thanks for the info; that does sound like an interesting game. I've seen plenty of ai-ai protectorates (Aragon-Moors and Serbia-ERE seem to happen pretty often in both my campaigns and in quick playtests), though the protectorate rebelled after 10-20 turns (a good thing imo). I just tried the one time and assumed that the player's diplomatic offer was weighted in such a way as to make it unfeasible. Might have been a fluke, then, so I'll give it a go in my new campaign if the opportunity presents itself. Out of curiosity, what were your relations with the vassals? I'm wondering if my abysmal rating might have hurt me (global standing was 'reliable' so that probably wasn't it).

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