SSHIP - General Discussion

[removeduser_28376423423]

Does anybody know if it's possible to change the shape of standard or custom unit formations (Wedge, Schiltrom)? I had an idea for the wedge while reading this discussion:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...eb2x&context=3

By chance it happened for a minute while I was playing 1648 mod and it looked awesome! You may look the unit to the right:
https://youtu.be/wW8g7d9acn4?t=905

Current one is too exaggerated, I'm thinking of something like the Rome 2 ones, or even less triangular, but for the far future, I'd write down this kind of stuff.

[Gigantus]

You're wrong Jurand, if, as his presentation says, patch F contains the battle_models.modeldb corrections made by Gigantus, the application of my KCC mod will replace this file with my file which has not been corrected...


That said, the mod still works without this fix, but it is important to note that KCC 0.9.5 has its own "battle_models.modeldb" which is essential for proper viewing of my modified unit models.

Simply let me have the modelDB of your installation and I'll run it through the checker as I suggested earlier. Now that I knoe how to sort it out relatively quick I can get it back to you in a day or two, RL permitting. Won't be able to give an accurate report on silver surfers and missing files though as that requires a full install of your set up.

Suggestion: once I have corrected the modelDB file you may want to give Bovi's checker a shot yourself. It provides an amazing range of feed back.

[Belovèse]

That would be much appreciated as it will cut down on the time I will have to spend on the file.

Hello Gigantus, here is the modeldb from KCC with the end of line spaces corrected (using regular expression in notepad++), the ending 0000 ant the .sp (missing r) corrected.

[Gigantus]

Hello Gigantus, here is the modeldb from KCC with the end of line spaces corrected (using regular expression in notepad++), the ending 0000 ant the .sp (missing r) corrected.

On it, so far only issues where two lines were merged, looks like an after effect of the correction procedure, but could also be a copy\paste issue because it exists identically in all ug instances of the model, example (not he actual error as I corrected it to carry on): 48 unit_sprites/portugal_Almughavars_ug2_sprite.spr4 merc

An interesting issue inherited form SS, spot the problem?:

5 turks 
66 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Middle Eastern_turks_diff.texture 
66 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Middle Eastern_turks_norm.texture 0 
3 rum 
66 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Middle Eastern_turks_diff.texture 
66 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Middle Eastern_turks_norm.texture 0 
6 zengid 
68 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Middle Eastern_kwarezm_diff.texture 
66 unit_models/AttachmentSets/Final Middle Eastern_turks_norm.texture 0 
7 abbasid 
91 unit_models/_Units/ME_Mail_Plate_Hvy_Mplate/textures/ME_Mail_Plate_Hvy_Mplate_turks.texture 
92 unit_models/_Units/ME_Mail_Plate_Hvy_Mplate/textures/ME_Mail_Plate_Hvy_Mplate_normal.texture 
42 unit_sprites/turks_iqta_dar_ug1_sprite.spr

Sprite entry for attachment section (copy\paste of main body entry?). Line needs removing and the line above it needs a trailing zero - IMPORTANT: check if the abbasid's attachment files are indeed the same as for the main body. You may end up with some weird looking attachments otherwise if the unit is used, not fatal afaik.

One line count error (5 pisa) and you didn't add a SPACE at the end of the very last line after you edited the triple zero issue

Your procedure fixed the 'tab instead of space' issue as well, I guess you used withwnar's code?

After lots of ruminating here now the fixed modelDB based on the file provided in the post above: 20201126 - KCC battle_models.zip

[Belovèse]

One line count error (5 pisa) and you didn't add a SPACE at the end of the very last line after you edited the triple zero issue

Damn it! I'm new to this file, didn't have the EOL space reflex...

Your procedure fixed the 'tab instead of space' issue as well, I guess you used withwnar's code?

Yep I did, worked perfectly it seems.

Thanks for your help!

On another topic, when you have time can you give me your thoughts on this desr_faction_standing issue? Would be much appreciated!

[kostic]

After lots of ruminating here now the fixed modelDB based on the file provided in the post above: 20201126 - KCC battle_models.zip

A thousand thanks Gigantus ! I understand here that I must use your latest version rather than that of Belovèse.
Maybe I'll try the "BovineM2twCheck" even if it scares me a little all these lines of code...

[Belovèse]

A thousand thanks Gigantus ! I understand here that I must use your latest version rather than that of Belovèse.
Maybe I'll try the "BovineM2twCheck" even if it scares me a little all these lines of code...

Yep, use Gig's file, mine was just preliminary work

[Waluk]

I'm still on win7 64, so when some of you wrote about compatibility mode, I thought it had to do with win10. Read some things on internet about compatibility mode for win7 and a lot of people recommended to try with winxp service pack 3. So I tried it on SS launcher and I'm quite shocked with the result. ALL my crashes went away :o Played for 50 turns this afternoon without a single ctd, and I'm currently at turn 400 with HRE. Thats with 097F, but still without KCC (will install KCC immediately after this campaign). Turn time did go up, actually doubled, but since I have an SSD, it went from cca 30 sec per turn, to approx 1 min, which isn't that bad. But now I have stable SSHIP, no crashes on end turn, no crashes when factions reemerge, no crashes when entering or leaving battles. All I can say is yippee ki yay For all who, like me had issues with ctds, try out some windows compatibility modes on SS launcher, maybe you' ll get lucky like me.

[Gigantus]

Compatibility can solve a good number of issues, usually one step down in OS version does the trick for win10, eg set to win7. With older OS it may take a try or two to find the suitable one. And admin rights go a long way, too.

Turn time will go up the longer you play as more and more characters populate the map that each require their own processing time.

[j.a.luna]

Compatibility can solve a good number of issues, usually one step down in OS version does the trick for win10, eg set to win7. With older OS it may take a try or two to find the suitable one. And admin rights go a long way, too.

Turn time will go up the longer you play as more and more characters populate the map that each require their own processing time.

Is possible down the turn time with compatibility of win?
Now i am playing with win 7 compab and i have almost 3 minutes of time turn... but if i try another win is possible down this time?

[Gigantus]

Oh, I thought you were referring to the 400 turns when turn time increases. As to it being compatibility related: I never paid attention to it, so only testing each setting will tell if there are differences between settings or if it is caused by the general use of compatibility.

[Walkihr]

Just as a progress report, playing with the latest version + patch F + Diplomacy Tweak 0.2 (without any other mods aside from a few personal modifications to army and agents movement range). So far, 50 turns with France, 0 crashes

Also, a few thoughts. Who knows, they might inspire some minor changes, or at least a few players looking for an extra bit of challenge (especially when roleplaying):

1) I also noticed that doubling the speed of the armies has made the game much more dynamic and interesting (to me) and has also made planning more important and decision-making more tense, which is great. It also makes much more sense to be able to traverse more ground. No more are there armies roaming about for years just to cross France... Moreover, since agents now have greater movement range it works well with the changes I tested out in nr. 2, that is, price changes.

2) Partly to prevent the AI from spamming them, I experimented with greatly raising the costs for agents. I personally dislike the agent minigame and feel that 3-4 agents even for a gigantic faction should be enough. (though at turn 30ish there were already four Imperial Antipopes(!) congregating next to a southern Reich town, probably enjoying the Mediterranean.

*As an explanation: For instance, when I train a merchant I pay 10000 instead of 500, because, to my mind this represents an entire mercantile enterprise rather than one individual. The same for a priest, which I interpret more as an influential ecclesiastical centre, while spies are networks which should be expensive to train (35000 in this case). Normally, I would take the priests from the game and let culture change even slower than now (like in the Great Conflicts Mod). Assassins themselves I find ridiculous and mostly unhistorical (the Assassins of Nizari fame are an exception), so I priced them at 50000 because I didn't want to remove them entirely. (I would limit them to 1 if I could).

*In brief, although agents are much more expensive, one can do much more with less, and they also become memorable figures, rather than just one among dozens.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Just as a progress report, playing with the latest version + patch F + Diplomacy Tweak 0.2 (without any other mods aside from a few personal modifications to army and agents movement range). So far, 50 turns with France, 0 crashes

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, a few thoughts. Who knows, they might inspire some minor changes, or at least a few players looking for an extra bit of challenge (especially when roleplaying):

1) I also noticed that doubling the speed of the armies has made the game much more dynamic and interesting (to me) and has also made planning more important and decision-making more tense, which is great. It also makes much more sense to be able to traverse more ground. No more are there armies roaming about for years just to cross France... Moreover, since agents now have greater movement range it works well with the changes I tested out in nr. 2, that is, price changes.

2) Partly to prevent the AI from spamming them, I experimented with greatly raising the costs for agents. I personally dislike the agent minigame and feel that 3-4 agents even for a gigantic faction should be enough. (though at turn 30ish there were already four Imperial Antipopes(!) congregating next to a southern Reich town, probably enjoying the Mediterranean.

*As an explanation: For instance, when I train a merchant I pay 10000 instead of 500, because, to my mind this represents an entire mercantile enterprise rather than one individual. The same for a priest, which I interpret more as an influential ecclesiastical centre, while spies are networks which should be expensive to train (35000 in this case). Normally, I would take the priests from the game and let culture change even slower than now (like in the Great Conflicts Mod). Assassins themselves I find ridiculous and mostly unhistorical (the Assassins of Nizari fame are an exception), so I priced them at 50000 because I didn't want to remove them entirely. (I would limit them to 1 if I could).

*In brief, although agents are much more expensive, one can do much more with less, and they also become memorable figures, rather than just one among dozens.

ad 1) personally I would go for even less movement points, so hope it would stay at least as it is in the base ;-)
ad 2) I understand you don't like the number of agents but they're already severly limited in the numbers (with the recent patch without that infinity bug). For me, it's ok, but we'll down the road. For the Antipopes - this part needs to be fixed.

[Walkihr]

Now 110 turns and 3 crashes (after turn 70), all during the Papal States' turn.
I only increased the movement range because of the 2 turn system. Had it been 4 turns per year than I would have been of the same opinion. Unless of course, the movement range is considered an abstraction of the army subduing the various fortresses in a certain region. Otherwise it's just immersion-breaking to take years and years to cross Europe, even with artillery.

I can confirm the Pope's aggression, but it has been limited to central and southern Italy for now + formerly Sicilian Tunis. Otherwise no major revolutions aside from the early destruction of Scotland and the relentless Georgian push into Anatolia. (perhaps an extra state south of the Caucasus would be a good thing; perhaps even Cilician Armenia, or a Persian polity).

Two questions:
1) Why is there a land bridge connecting Venice to the mainland? It should really be an island, with the AI only able to attack via amphibious assault.
2) As a last question: why is Pisa a playable faction instead of Genoa? The latter had a much greater historical impact in the end and it was directly responsible for the destruction of Pisan power.

Thanks again to the team for the work on this mod, it just keeps getting better with every version

[Nemesis2345]

Now 110 turns and 3 crashes (after turn 70), all during the Papal States' turn.
I only increased the movement range because of the 2 turn system. Had it been 4 turns per year than I would have been of the same opinion. Unless of course, the movement range is considered an abstraction of the army subduing the various fortresses in a certain region. Otherwise it's just immersion-breaking to take years and years to cross Europe, even with artillery.

I can confirm the Pope's aggression, but it has been limited to central and southern Italy for now + formerly Sicilian Tunis. Otherwise no major revolutions aside from the early destruction of Scotland and the relentless Georgian push into Anatolia. (perhaps an extra state south of the Caucasus would be a good thing; perhaps even Cilician Armenia, or a Persian polity).

Two questions:
1) Why is there a land bridge connecting Venice to the mainland? It should really be an island, with the AI only able to attack via amphibious assault.
2) As a last question: why is Pisa a playable faction instead of Genoa? The latter had a much greater historical impact in the end and it was directly responsible for the destruction of Pisan power.

Thanks again to the team for the work on this mod, it just keeps getting better with every version

1) Because the AI is braindead most likely , i dont think it could handle both sailing to mainland and attacking.
2) Interesting question , i suppose because Pisa was first in 1000 ish , Genoa became a republic in 1005 , a few years later i suppose , and the game has maximum factions allowed sadly , so we cant have both.

[removeduser_28376423423]

1) Because the AI is braindead most likely , i dont think it could handle both sailing to mainland and attacking.
2) Interesting question , i suppose because Pisa was first in 1000 ish , Genoa became a republic in 1005 , a few years later i suppose , and the game has maximum factions allowed sadly , so we cant have both.

Plus the crossing is not that large right? As to need a fleet, I think a land bridge would be convenient if so.

I looked in a map and it seems there are other small islands to the east side of the city, does anyone know if they could have crossed directly to the mainland or going around by them?

[Jurand of Cracow]

@Sindathar: Georgia will have an explicit set of reforms in the next edition of the SSHIP.

{GEORGIAN1_STARTING_INFO_BODY}Historically, the Georgian military underwent significant changes in the middle ages, represented in the SSHIP via a set of "reforms". These reforms were tied to specific historic events, and in the course of the game they will come to pass as you develop the Georgian faction. Thus, as you lead your people forward in science, culture, and war, so too will your military develop as well. (Note that at a certain date the reforms will trigger automatically, even if the player has not yet developed the faction.) \n\nIn addition to the military reforms, there are a number of historical events which may come to pass in the Georgian Kingdom, provided the player develops the faction well. \n\nThe Georgian Golden Age, which historically peaked in the second part of the 12th century, will be triggered once Georgia has constructed an Ikoner Studio and three Local Guards, and the either the Georgian Faction Leader or his wife is of Kievan or Byzantine blood. \n\nHistorically, the nation's greatest poet, Shota Rustaveli, died in Jerusalem in the first half of 13the century. An in-game event for this will be triggered if a Cathedral and a University exist in Georgia and at least three Ikoner Studios have been built. This event may have an impact on both the military and religious life of Georgia! \n\nThe Georgian Revival, which historically occurred in the first part of 14th century, will be triggered if an enemy faction (not rebels) has conquered Tbilisi, and then Georgia has reconquered it, and constructed at least three Provincial Councils, and Georgia holds a Citadel.
{GEORGIAN1_STARTING_INFO_TITLE}Georgian Reforms

@Walkhir: if you'd get involve into modding, you may create a minimod that would make Genoa playable in the High Era. This era is currently disabled but it may return. The SS6.4 contains Genoan units so it's just a matter of modding. This is a rather big tasks, you know.

[kaiser29]

Is it me or it seems that now less factions join the crusades? Could be that the joining time has been reduced to 4 turns?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Is it me or it seems that now less factions join the crusades? Could be that the joining time has been reduced to 4 turns?

Me, I haven't changed anything. Maybe Belovese minimod does, dunno.

[Walkihr]

Plus the crossing is not that large right? As to need a fleet, I think a land bridge would be convenient if so.
I looked in a map and it seems there are other small islands to the east side of the city, does anyone know if they could have crossed directly to the mainland or going around by them?

The Venetians changed their environment gradually (especially since the 14th-15th century onwards but they took great care to maintain the city's position vs. possible land invasion, so only a naval assault would have succeeded. I don't know if the AI is that poor for naval operations - the Papal States took Sicilian north Africa relatively quickly (via a Crusade they initiated, the sneaks).

My issue with the crossing was merely because it defeats the purpose of the Venetian navy - if the crossing could at least be blocked with a ship then that would be another matter entirely