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Thread: SSHIP - General Discussion

  1. #5521
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    I understand 097 over 096 ;-)
    I've played a few turns on Medium and noticed nothing fishy - besides that autoresolve is very easy (at VH you're always losing).
    Regent I haven't studied it and I don't know how to lose it. Maybe after his death?
    But how it's possible you've got "Comes" and "Sicilian Tutelage"? The second is even diplomat/admiral trait.

  2. #5522

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    I dunno, maybe the game gave those traits to my generals in any of the many times it crashed during turn processing or something.

    If it really is broken then I suppose I will continue with this new as Scotland. Currently I am astounded at how poor Scotland is at the start. It makes for an interesting strategic position even if my first adversary is not going to be as powerful as the Moorish Caliphate.

  3. #5523
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by sillygoy View Post
    I dunno, maybe the game gave those traits to my generals in any of the many times it crashed during turn processing or something.

    If it really is broken then I suppose I will continue with this new as Scotland. Currently I am astounded at how poor Scotland is at the start. It makes for an interesting strategic position even if my first adversary is not going to be as powerful as the Moorish Caliphate.
    Yes, Scotland is poor. Has to make up with ferociousness.
    Play at Hard, why not?
    Upload save at early game to have a look if everything is ok.

  4. #5524

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Example from RRRC20:

    Altering melee-hit-rate has implications for stamina - if kill rates are too low then heavy armored units are at too great a disadvantage, they will tire too easily and be exhausted half way through the battle (the heat values are an attempt to depict the relative heat penalties of fighting in various armors, in various climates, carrying various weapons etc.)
    The heat values in various climates can be globally adjusted in descr_climates, and they will have to be balanced for any changes made to melee kill rates.
    i know for sure exhaustion decreases speed and morale, maybe some other stats like defense skill, but if an armored unit gets tired so does the unit that is curently fighting against

    then you also have the fact that armored units usually tend to be more elite and have far better stats and stamina than unarmoured, so really what exactly is this great disadvantage

  5. #5525
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Are you saying that all the modders who have worked on the stats by the past did the same mistake by taking these parameters into account?
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  6. #5526

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    i am saying from my experience stamina penalties are negligible, RC2 says they are "too great", so i am merely questioning what exactly makes them great, how big are they that they are deemed "too great"

  7. #5527

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    How about siege equipment? Can you like greatly increase the requirements for siege equipments , so you couldnt build them in 1 turn? Or maybe just rams and ladders , siege towers should take at least 2 turns to build?. I kinda want the AI and the Player to not be able to just attack after 1 turn with full siege equipment.

  8. #5528
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis2345 View Post
    How about siege equipment? Can you like greatly increase the requirements for siege equipments , so you couldnt build them in 1 turn? Or maybe just rams and ladders , siege towers should take at least 2 turns to build?. I kinda want the AI and the Player to not be able to just attack after 1 turn with full siege equipment.
    You may see the conceptual framework made 3 years ago, waiting for implementation.
    A similar system was implemented in the BC-BS, but it's not balanced, what shows problems with the propere implementation.

  9. #5529

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Ok, so after hearing about EDU changes and new Byzantine rooster being ready, I simply have to ask this question:

    Medieval 3 Next SSHIP version when?

    And if you would like to include my music minimod, it will be ready any day now

  10. #5530

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Just let me post View Post
    Ok, so after hearing about EDU changes and new Byzantine rooster being ready, I simply have to ask this question:

    Medieval 3 Next SSHIP version when?

    And if you would like to include my music minimod, it will be ready any day now
    If you coulda also add battle music that would be great.

  11. #5531
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Let me correct one thing: the ERE roster is not implemented yet. I'm on it but I won't guarantee it will be included in the next release. This is in order to not delay it more than necessary.

    Same with your music mod. We need to discuss about that between us (dev) first.

    It is also planned to implement kostic units later on as well.

    That's it for now
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  12. #5532

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    i will probably miss a bit the current byzantine units, yea they are not accurate and whatever but they are aesthetic af

  13. #5533
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Dekhatres,
    do you happen to know the answers to these questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    [A] Do we know how much impact does the loss of stamina on the performance of the units have? (in my notes I've got: Tired: -2 attack; Very Tired: -3 attack, -1 defence, Exhausted: -4 attack, -2 defence, Totally Exhausted: -6 attack, -3 defence. I'd like to know if this is the common wisdom: 1) impact is not in %% but in values (this mechanism impacts weak units much more than strong ones; 2. no impact on morale, right?

    [B] Do the "heat" parameters impact on other things than the speed of losing stamina? (eg. speed of gaining stamina? morale?)

    [C] Do we know if and what types of terrain impact on the speed of regaining stamina? (eg. is staying in the woods better than in the open?)

    [D] What is the impact of terrain coefficients? Eg. if a unit has "Snow -3", what does it exactly lower: Attack value? Defence? Morale? Stamina?

  14. #5534

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    no and i dont remember ever seeing any thread with proper testing or anything concrete about them either

    the values you posted make sense tho and are somewhat in line with my overall observations

  15. #5535
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Not exactly related to the above, but this thread might be interesting for those who work on the units' stats.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; June 05, 2020 at 07:46 AM.
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  16. #5536

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    good thread

    however i have a few problems with the testing he did, tests involving melee units should not be dragged til the end, they should be stopped at a certain point

    the reason is that units tend to snowball, once a unit gets a slight edge it starts enveloping the other and starts getting lots and lots of kills

    if you're testing two units of 120 men i think you should write down the score when one unit reaches 110, 100 and 90 men remaining, then just end the battle

    the ideal testing groud i guess would be a street, where no unit can get an edge, no weird flanks or anything, just straight up face to face combat at all times, problem is AI wont cooperate
    Last edited by Dekhatres; June 05, 2020 at 06:54 AM.

  17. #5537

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Taiji View Post
    Well for me, I'm more confused than ever. The more I test the less I know... it's a good job I pay more attention to unit balancing in reall combat situations (...in the game) than to predictions based on understandings of the bonuses and penalties of using different stats.
    a trillion times this, i have no words to express how much i agree with this

    looking at 6.4's RC or any of its spreadsheets it looks like it's all so well balanced and thought out, but then you play a few battles and realize balance is dog poop, cavalry charges deal more damage when hiting frontally than flanks (LOL) and dont even get me started on melee, battle pace is all messed up, infantry fighting infantry annihilate eachother in seconds (but muh difficulty tho, gaem is harder if you just lose soldierinos no matter what)

  18. #5538
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    iirc, I had the best combat experience with Taji's BB for DLV (saddly, the historicity of the DLV was awful, and I've played two very short games)

    How do you compare: BB vs. SSHIP (so MWY, I think) vs. EBII vs. something else? (BC, BCrucis, TATW, any other?)

  19. #5539

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    iirc, I had the best combat experience with Taji's BB for DLV (saddly, the historicity of the DLV was awful, and I've played two very short games)

    How do you compare: BB vs. SSHIP (so MWY, I think) vs. EBII vs. something else? (BC, BCrucis, TATW, any other?)
    If I may, I would like to quickly share my opinions:

    TATW and DAC:
    Pro - it's so fun to play. Units behave like you think they would.
    Con - morale is skyhigh (makes sense in its universe). Cavalry are tanks (esp. in DAC) but their charges are too weak. In DAC pikemen are op.

    EBII:
    Pro - combat seems very realistic, formations are great, missile damage looks realistic
    Con - it's absolutely terrible gameplay wise. Battles last for ages, it's just not fun at all.

    SSHIP:
    spearmen are ragdolls

  20. #5540

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    with a few critical tweaks i like SSHIP the most

    dont know if comparison to EBII is valid (or De Bello Mundi which i am playing a lot nowadays), cavalry in ancient times isnt really supposed to be as strong as medieval one and many other things are supposed to work differently, similar reason for TATW, i had fun but i dont think it was because of balance, rather the setting and everything else

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