SSHIP - General Discussion

[NikolaTheGreat]

One suggestion for the next patch: could someone add the possibility to assassinate your own generals and your king or faction leader? Just a small suggestion I think it would give to the game a extra portion of strategy

[Marus312]

I believe theres an engine limit that prevents that. Although it might be worthwhile suggesting it to these guys as they are working on breaking through some engine limits. They already uncapped ancillaries and religions
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/foru...erhaul-Project

[Jurand of Cracow]

One suggestion for the next patch: could someone add the possibility to assassinate your own generals and your king or faction leader? Just a small suggestion I think it would give to the game a extra portion of strategy

If you'd make a submod with such changes, this would be interesting to see.

[Just let me post]

I've got a question:

One of the tips that show during the game says that your generals need to participate (fight) a bit in battles in order to not get "coward" trait. How severe is that? (the chance of getting it)

Also, did medieval dukes really duke it out? (sry for the pun )

[Jurand of Cracow]

5%, if the battle lost another 33%, if fought weak enemies another 33%

I may calibrate it a bit eg. BattleOdds < 3 so that the player may autoresolve the battles with high odds.
as usuall, there're quirks in coding, eg. GeneralNumKillsInBattle counts only personal kills, and it may happen that his unit gets 20 kills, but the general himself none. In case somebody wants to adjusts the odds for himself, I'm putting the notes on those quirks in the EDCT.

;-------- Coward from Battles -------------;------------------------------------------
Trigger BattleCoward_No_Killed_Enemies
 WhenToTest PostBattle


 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds <= 5
       and GeneralNumKillsInBattle < 2


 Affects Coward 1 Chance 5 


;------------------------------------------
Trigger BattleCoward_Loss_Without_Fight
 WhenToTest PostBattle


 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds <= 5
       and not WonBattle
       and PercentageEnemyKilled < 30
       and PercentageBodyguardKilled < 50


 Affects Coward 1 Chance 33 


;------------------------------------------
Trigger BattleCoward_Routed
 WhenToTest BattleGeneralRouted


 Affects Coward 1 Chance 70
 Affects Coward 1 Chance 20
 
;------------------------------------------
Trigger BattleCoward_Only_Very_Weak_Enemies
 WhenToTest PostBattle


 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds < 5
       and BattleOdds >= 3
       and PercentageBodyguardKilled < 50


 Affects Coward 1 Chance 33 


;------------------------------------------
Trigger BattleCoward_Only_Weak_Enemies
 WhenToTest PostBattle


 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds < 3
       and BattleOdds > 2
       and PercentageBodyguardKilled < 50


 Affects Coward 1 Chance 20 
 
;------------------------------------------
Trigger Coward_Withdraws
 WhenToTest PreBattleWithdrawal


 Condition WasAttacker


 Affects Coward 1 Chance 20 


;------------------------------------------
Trigger Coward_Withdraw_Before_Battle_Even_Odds
 WhenToTest PreBattleWithdrawal


 Condition IsGeneral
       and I_WithdrawsBeforeBattle
       and BattleOdds > 0.5
       and BattleOdds < 1.75


 Affects Coward 1 Chance 50

[Just let me post]

Hm, so not bad.

But it brings me to my second question: were lords actually expected to fight, historically speaking?


A loose idea:
What if you would get benefits for fighting, instead of penalties when not? (e.g. getting "Brave" or "Inspiring" trait)
That way incentive to duke it out is much nicer, plus it could eliminate autoresolve concerns

[Jurand of Cracow]

But it brings me to my second question: were lords actually expected to fight, historically speaking?
A loose idea:
What if you would get benefits for fighting, instead of penalties when not? (e.g. getting "Brave" or "Inspiring" trait)
That way incentive to duke it out is much nicer, plus it could eliminate autoresolve concerns

They were expected.

There're benefits, also in Brave

;--------------------------------------------------------- Brave from Battles

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_Brave_Killed_Enemies
 WhenToTest PostBattle


 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds <= 3
       and GeneralNumKillsInBattle > 10
	   and Trait Haemophobic < 1
		
 Affects Brave 1 Chance 15 


;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_Brave_Killed_Enemies_Many
 WhenToTest PostBattle


 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds <= 3
       and GeneralNumKillsInBattle > 95
	   and Trait Haemophobic < 1
	   
 Affects Brave 1 Chance 15 


;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_Brave_Bodyguard_Loss
 WhenToTest PostBattle


Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds <= 3
       and PercentageBodyguardKilled > 40
	   and Trait Haemophobic < 1
	   
 Affects Brave 1 Chance 15 


;------------------------------------------
Trigger Battle_Brave_Enemy_General_Killed
 WhenToTest PostBattle


 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds <= 3
       and NumKilledGenerals > 0
       and PercentageBodyguardKilled > 10
	   and Trait Haemophobic < 1
	   
 Affects Brave 1 Chance 15

[Just let me post]

Awesome

[Belovèse]

@Jurand and @Kilo, here is the program: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1rusr30hp...space.txt?dl=0

I could do what you asked, except for the "dictionary" entry. The names and types of units are not always the same number of words, and I could not find a way around that. Best solution I can think of is to use the filter options in Excel (like I did in the file included), sorry!

There is a small bug, caused by empty lines inside og a unit stats. In the file you sent me Jurand, it was in Druhzina, Mutatawwi and Sipahi. Here is a file without these lines: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1rusr30hp...space.txt?dl=0

[lequintal69]

Hello,

I have been playing 0.96 as france (Hard). Overall, I really had a great experience. The new traits bring more roleplay and gameplay depth than when I last played 1 year ago! I really like it (and could use even more of that). I have some remarks / questions !

1- Has it been considered to add building upkeep to nerf a bit the income? I think some prestigious buildings (big churches, stables, some administratives buildings) could have it and maybe prevent maxing out every single city (at least in mid game)

2- Can low loyalty general turn into a rebel army or spawn rebel troops ? I had 2 Zero loyalty generals (that almost couldnt moved) parked in the bush for 50 turns and they never rebelled. Maybe there are features I yet didnt encounter ? if not, they are just a burden for the realm I guess, but not really a threat !

3- I like the public gallows building (heavy PO bonus, but at the cost of many things), that I see at a temporary building to address rebellion. Imho, we could use more of those buildings with big specific bonuses and huge maluses meant to be temporary, or used only on a specific, specialized city

4- is it possible to add global effect to your king's authority (like minus x% to taxes everywhere, or increased time of recruitment) ?


cheers!

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hi lequintal,
ad. 1 - I understand there're two problems for you: a) economy balance: too much money. b) prestigious buildings chains are maximised in the settlements.
The economy balance need to take more issues into account, esp. prices of units. These will be quite different in 097.
The maximisation is not so easy, imho, since there're building times and many buildings need to be built. Upgrading levels of the settlements can also be hard.

ad. 2 - they should rebel. I've seen my generals rebelling. But this may be another balancing problem.

ad. 3 - I have it in my mind for post-1.0 version of the SSHIP. In the other mods you can have similar things, like Toleration edict in the Broken Crescent. The problem with the SSHIP is that there're many buildings and you cannot see more than 24. So if you create gallows in a city that has 24 buildings, you cannot demolish them - because you don't see it.

ad. 4 - yes, it's possible, but the global effects are differently dealt with in the SSHIP (as in the base SS). Your FL can get a relevant trait and then the script (as below) sets certain global (eg. faction-wide) effects to the buildings).
set_event_counter thinks_of_his_people 0
set_event_counter wise_administrator 0
set_event_counter strictly_religious 0
set_event_counter protector 0
set_event_counter merchant_skills 0
set_event_counter greedy_ruler 0
set_event_counter shady_connections 0

In the SSHIP 097 the "protector" will be quite important as militias will have free upkeep and the protector increases the number of free upkeep slots. A few FLs will have this trait at the beginning.

Peaceful diplomacy - yes, this can be a problem for some factions. iirc, in Spain it's not easy to achieve. Again, this needs balancing.

[lequintal69]

Hi lequintal,
ad. 1 - I understand there're two problems for you: a) economy balance: too much money. b) prestigious buildings chains are maximised in the settlements.
The economy balance need to take more issues into account, esp. prices of units. These will be quite different in 097.
The maximisation is not so easy, imho, since there're building times and many buildings need to be built. Upgrading levels of the settlements can also be hard.

ad. 2 - they should rebel. I've seen my generals rebelling. But this may be another balancing problem.

ad. 3 - I have it in my mind for post-1.0 version of the SSHIP. In the other mods you can have similar things, like Toleration edict in the Broken Crescent. The problem with the SSHIP is that there're many buildings and you cannot see more than 24. So if you create gallows in a city that has 24 buildings, you cannot demolish them - because you don't see it.

ad. 4 - yes, it's possible, but the global effects are differently dealt with in the SSHIP (as in the base SS). Your FL can get a relevant trait and then the script (as below) sets certain global (eg. faction-wide) effects to the buildings).
set_event_counter thinks_of_his_people 0
set_event_counter wise_administrator 0
set_event_counter strictly_religious 0
set_event_counter protector 0
set_event_counter merchant_skills 0
set_event_counter greedy_ruler 0
set_event_counter shady_connections 0

In the SSHIP 097 the "protector" will be quite important as militias will have free upkeep and the protector increases the number of free upkeep slots. A few FLs will have this trait at the beginning.

Peaceful diplomacy - yes, this can be a problem for some factions. iirc, in Spain it's not easy to achieve. Again, this needs balancing.

thanks for the answers!

[Jurand of Cracow]

thanks for the answers!

Read PMs (Personal Messages, ie coming to your TWC account). I've sent you something.

ad. 2 - iirc, playing Poland I could upgrade my capital from Minor City to Large City only after 150 turns or something. It really takes time, you need to have good governors, and avoid plagues.

ad. 3 - in the 097 it'll be possible to build gallows everywhere, not only in the capitals. There'll be additional malus to trade.

ad. 4 - in the 097 and additional free_upkeep is worth 400-600 florins for that militia unit, thus protector is worthy. However, an overhaul of this part of the script is still to be done, perhaps for 098.

[Kilo11]

ad. 3 - I have it in my mind for post-1.0 version of the SSHIP. In the other mods you can have similar things, like Toleration edict in the Broken Crescent. The problem with the SSHIP is that there're many buildings and you cannot see more than 24. So if you create gallows in a city that has 24 buildings, you cannot demolish them - because you don't see it.

Hey Jurand,

There actually is a way around this, and I have been meaning to make a guide about it for a while now. Since it has come up here, I decided to just take the time to finally make that guide. It can be found in the new guide thread "Managing Buildings in Settlements wiht 24+ Buildings". Since it is fairly common for late-game cities to have 24+ buildings, it might also be good to point new players to that thread in general.

Anyway, I hope it helps!

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hey Jurand,

There actually is a way around this, and I have been meaning to make a guide about it for a while now. Since it has come up here, I decided to just take the time to finally make that guide. It can be found in the new guide thread "Managing Buildings in Settlements wiht 24+ Buildings". Since it is fairly common for late-game cities to have 24+ buildings, it might also be good to point new players to that thread in general.

Anyway, I hope it helps!

This is great, Kilo!
Helps very much, it means that at times the limit of 24 can be allowed to be broken. It'll impact a lot a plan for the post-1.0 building system I have in mind (and in Excel).

I also think that it will help the players. Maybe we can include an info-window with this information?

[Kilo11]

This is great, Kilo!
Helps very much, it means that at times the limit of 24 can be allowed to be broken. It'll impact a lot a plan for the post-1.0 building system I have in mind (and in Excel).

I also think that it will help the players. Maybe we can include an info-window with this information?

Hmm. Definitely something worth considering, but I think it might be good to not overload the player with too many info windows. As it is, there are already a bunch in the first dozen or so turns, and I fear more might just inundate the player with too much information. If we were to add an info window like this, I think it would be best if it appeared like 50 turns in or so, when the player is actually getting cities to that level of development, or conquering huge cities with that level of infrastructure (like Constantinople).

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hmm. Definitely something worth considering, but I think it might be good to not overload the player with too many info windows. As it is, there are already a bunch in the first dozen or so turns, and I fear more might just inundate the player with too much information. If we were to add an info window like this, I think it would be best if it appeared like 50 turns in or so, when the player is actually getting cities to that level of development, or conquering huge cities with that level of infrastructure (like Constantinople).

Absolutely. This should be a message appearing after quite some time. BTW, you've seen that in 097 there're a few information windows that will indeed appear later in the game - just to make it possible for the player to refresh some infomation.

[total_warrior18]

Hello everyone!
I have recently (re)discovered this fantastic mod and immediately started a Pisa campaign on H/H. I can honestly say it's been a long time since I've had this much fun in a TW game... My most sincere appreciation goes to all the people that made this, it is truly an excellent mod.

I do have a few questions though, I apologize in advance if this is common knowledge/frequently asked but my searches didn't yield any results.
- Is SSHIP Tweaks (http://tmsship.wikidot.com/start) compatible with the latest version of SSHIP? I tried installing it but I got a lot of errors during installation so I uninstalled everything. I'm mostly interested in the "choose your heir" submod. Speakig of which, I tried using the console to choose a new heir but the trait "Factionheir" is not recognized by the engine... Has the name of the trait been changed in SSHIP?

- The land outside of the battle map proper looks untextured (see here https://imgur.com/a/9XRtlLj). Did I somehow botch the installation?

- Are the differences between the various difficulty settings the same as in SS 6.4?

- Can I read the tutorial messages that appear during the course of the campaign outside of the game? Like a .txt file or something?

Thank you

[Jurand of Cracow]

unfortunatelly, tmodelsk tweaks are not compatible. Some of the "tweaks" are in the 097 though (obviously my minimods, also limit for the merchants etc.).

the issue of faction heir is a tricky one. Actually, there's still code in the SSHIP for having it - but this code is disabled. however, this runs against the logic of the other mechanisms: it's exactly the inability of defining the next heir causing problems of the usurpers, making sense of having ministerial offices etc. Plus it makes much more for role-playing: you try to have another general with high authority so that he's got a chance to become the next heir.
however, I actually see it possible to re-introduce this feature for the lower difficulty levels. But not in 097.

I think for the difficulty settings are different but not so much. However, in the 097 they'll be different: certain mechanisms only at H or VH levels, differences in the AI boni, differences in many generals' traits.

Tutorial messages are much more developed in 097 (now they're being proof-read by the Literary Director of the SSHIP, Kilo11 ;-) and they can be read in historical_event.txt in the /data/text, seach for "info_".

Me, I've got little idea about graphics, so I cannot answer you.

[Lifthrasir]

- The land outside of the battle map proper looks untextured (see here https://imgur.com/a/9XRtlLj). Did I somehow botch the installation?

I think that the problem is the following and can be fixed as explained:

I did answer question on pm but for public reference;

The problem isn't the weather file - it's just that when the 'fog' is set to a far distance then the fog stops covering the distant hills and you see the black areas where the texture has stopped.

The problem file is the descr_geography_new.db. The vanilla .db file has Blue/Green/Red (I do mean that way round) values against each texture - when the terrain is too far away for the engine to show the texture those BGR values get used instead. Modders have previously been re-generating modded descr_geography_new.db files from descr_geography_new.txt using rebuild_geography_db = true in the .cfg file. Unfortunately CA's process for letting M2TW rebuild the .db has some problems - including wiping out all the BGR values - hence the black in the distance.

If starting from scratch just make sure you delete the .txt file and use IWTE to amend the geography .db file - IWTE will retain the BGR colours and allow you to amend them.

If you've already got a modded geography .db file and don't know how to re-create all the required changes (i.e. for TATW) then you need to add the BGR colours back into the modded file.

Attachment 307179

Open a vanilla geography.db in IWTE - launch IWTE a second time and open your modded geography.db in the second version - use the vanilla version to find the colours that were used for each texture and copy them into the modded version - if you've got new/very different textures you'll have to make a guess and experiment to find the right sort of values - click "Ok -write files" to save. Find the new .db file and re-name it to replace the mod's one.


EDIT; and make sure you don't still have the text file/ 'rebuild_geography_db = true' in the .cfg or you'll overwrite it again!!!!