SSHIP - General Discussion

[Lifthrasir]

Yes, you should. This is related to the hidden resources, not to the faction. So basically, any faction listed within the {} owning any region with the hidden resource jerusalem is able to recruit them through the relevant building

[Korsan82]

Having played around 150 hours now I'll sum up my impression with the mod so far:

While there is an incredible amount of detail in the game, I am not happy with some of the gameplay elements. Mainly extremely low morale in your cities and castles and the frequent civil wars even when the nation is prospering. I have found myself being the perfect leader in a perfectly growing empire (Rum Seljuks with mainly control over Anatolia and Istanbul, Adrianopel, Thessaloniki).
Without any reason my income drops drastically in some turns leading to my armies being reduced to a few men. This happens within 1 turn and is totally beyond me. The amount of punitive events are way too much.

I like a challenging game. But putting a penalty on almost every move is not the way to make the game challenging, but frustrating.

So I am getting this unexplainable income shortage within 1 turn. The effect is that my merchants will disband first, leading to a downwards spiral with even less income every turn. I have faced this 3 or 4 times now and have to say this upsets me the most.

Also the balance for the buildings is like very very dangerous balance on the rope act. There seems to be no way to get a happy city, no matter what you build. Only having an outstanding general in the city improves the happiness. But did every city in the middle ages really have such big garrisons? I don't think so... This is more like an army needed for every province which simply isn't historically accurate. Fielding a national army to face a threat to your homogenous empire leads to your people revolting at your back. This ain't really fun for me... I always thought in times of war the people stick together and only a few foul and unloyal generals try to take advantage of this but here it seems like everybody in my empire is just waiting for a war with the common enemy to betray me and declare the independancy.

Is there any mod around toning this down a little?

[Dekhatres]

Is there any mod around toning this down a little?

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...imod-for-SSHIP

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...mmon-Sense-fix

[Jurand of Cracow]

... extremely low morale in your cities and castles and the frequent civil wars even when the nation is prospering.
I like a challenging game. But putting a penalty on almost every move is not the way to make the game challenging, but frustrating.

This is a feature of this mod, sorry. It's meant to be tough, but it's not such an extreme as Byg's Grim Reality IV (not to mention V).

So I am getting this unexplainable income shortage within 1 turn. The effect is that my merchants will disband first, leading to a downwards spiral with even less income every turn. I have faced this 3 or 4 times now and have to say this upsets me the most.

I don't think there're "unexplainable income shortages". Unlike the BGR, there're not hidden losses of cash, afaik.

Also the balance for the buildings is like very very dangerous balance on the rope act. There seems to be no way to get a happy city, no matter what you build. Only having an outstanding general in the city improves the happiness. But did every city in the middle ages really have such big garrisons? I don't think so... This is more like an army needed for every province which simply isn't historically accurate. Fielding a national army to face a threat to your homogenous empire leads to your people revolting at your back. This ain't really fun for me... I always thought in times of war the people stick together and only a few foul and unloyal generals try to take advantage of this but here it seems like everybody in my empire is just waiting for a war with the common enemy to betray me and declare the independancy.

I agree that there're no such big garrisons, this is unhistorical in the M2TW engine.
However, I disagree with the other claims. There're no hmogenous empires in the Middle Ages, and times of war the people wouldn't stick together, as the history of the Byzantine Empire provides us with numerous examples. Just the contrary, any external threat would just spark the internal conflicts.

[Tribal]

Hey I had lots of fun with the previous version of the mod so after some waiting I have decided to install the newest small patch.

Can someone explain to me what the thoughts were behind nerfing all knights and cavalry? Like lets say we have these soldiers who trained their whole life, they are equiped with multiple layers or armor that makes them almost impossible to kill by a normal peasant who just got spear and shield and was told to hold the line (unless they somehow overpower the knight and beat him to death which is pretty damn hard to do in the game engine). So with these historical realities being said, why would you nerf knights and the all so powerful cavalry instead of buffing them or atleast keeping them the same? After trying my luck with the new patch my cav killed half of the enemy unit with charge but then fastly melted to the enermy spears who were militia.
I would hate to be the hater but this was a big downgrade to my overall gaming experience. And I dont mean make the knights overpowered but there definetly should be some way how to emphasize how strong a full equiped knight was compared to a peasant

[Lifthrasir]

What "previous" version are you referring to? Because there"s no change on units' stats between V0.9.2 and v0.9.5.

This being said, I disagree with you. Even if well trained and well equiped, they were not invicible. There are numerous records through medieval history mentioning cavalry being vainquished by infantry.
If we consider your example and transpose it in reality, then the main issue in such case would be the moral of the militia rather than their equipment and/or skills. Try to imagine an armored guy on a horse coming full speed for you. However, if they could manage to keep a tied formation, then the cavalry charge would far less effective.

Or remember how Scotts dealt with the English cavalry, forming lines with space in between. Horses have a natural inclination to choose spaces instead going against an obstacle, men in this case. Once the knights were withing the Scottish lines, the Scotts used their weapons equiped with a hook to throw the knights on the floor and then to kill them. See, pikes were not the only way to counter English cavalry

[Dekhatres]

What "previous" version are you referring to? Because there"s no change on units' stats between V0.9.2 and v0.9.5.

but was there change in the melee hit rate ? cause that affects cav charges a lot

EDIT: horse mass affects it too

[Lifthrasir]

List of changes affecting the EDU in v0.9.5:

• Crusader Dismounted Knights have their discipline set to impetuous now (like their mounted counter part)
• Dismounted Feudal Knights have the command attribute now (like their mounted counter part)
• Formation for all Georgian foot units set like other foot units (they don't appear in loose formation anymore)
• Georgian and Serbian navies corrected. Both able to recruit dromon, carrack and lanternas now.
• Slav Levies, Slav Mercenaries, Mutatawwi Warriors, EE Spear Militia and Bashtinik Infantry have their class changed to spearmen.
• Abna Heavy Axeman have their class changed to heavy.
• Khevsur Heavy Swordsman have their charge bonus lowered from 13 to 4 (like other units of the same type) and have the class changed to heavy (instead of light).

I can't honestly see what could cause the changes mentioned by Tribal

[Steward Denethor II]

I think it is better here. The cavalry charge is pretty much as powerful as it was, or at least pretty close. But disengaging is more messy and often leads to some losses. It is frustrating but it probably is more accurate. Another thing is that heavy spears seem to all be a bit tougher which is good. If the Battle of Hastings was done in normal Stainless Steel the Saxon shieldwall would not stand a chance against repeated charges, here they might.

It would be good if the cavalry lances would not just reappear after they use swords they stick with them but that is probably impossible.


Edit: I know this mod is supposed to be very historically accurate. One thing I really like is how the Holy Roman Empire is so huge. It makes them a force to be reckoned with like they were historically, while in regular Stainless Steel they never do well since they aren't as powerful compared to their neighbors, and are so central.

One thing you might want to do is make Henry II an infant. He is a future King of England and is born 1 year after the early start date. He might even be made the heir. In the Titanium mod the Troubles are represented, a civil war between Stephen de Blois and Henrys daughter Matilda representing her son. It would be great if that could somehow be done in this mod as well, though the AI would need scripts dealing with it. Also Robert Curthose, who was a prisoner at this time, had a son William Clito who died in 1128, he could be added to the family tree as a dead character.

Denmark's heir Magnus has a younger brother Ingolf, but I don't think that he existed historically. Currently in the Danish Civil War Denmark is represented by King Niels who lost to Eric II, who is a rebel. I'm not sure how that should be handled since all of these characters died in that decade. I want to do more research on the Danish royal family now.

I'm enjoying my Denmark game a lot, thanks for the work!

[sullivanclan1]

Love the mod it works like charm... i like how christian factions have demi lancers and hungary and serbia have dismounted bandundium( I mispelled it there). Was it intentianal to not have city of Inverness and Kerak or is it just me? A lot more units.... I like that and more factions to play with. 1 question though does anyone what surface works best for a wireless mouse bc does not work on my blanket?

[Dekhatres]

List of changes affecting the EDU in v0.9.5:

• Crusader Dismounted Knights have their discipline set to impetuous now (like their mounted counter part)
• Dismounted Feudal Knights have the command attribute now (like their mounted counter part)
• Formation for all Georgian foot units set like other foot units (they don't appear in loose formation anymore)
• Georgian and Serbian navies corrected. Both able to recruit dromon, carrack and lanternas now.
• Slav Levies, Slav Mercenaries, Mutatawwi Warriors, EE Spear Militia and Bashtinik Infantry have their class changed to spearmen.
• Abna Heavy Axeman have their class changed to heavy.
• Khevsur Heavy Swordsman have their charge bonus lowered from 13 to 4 (like other units of the same type) and have the class changed to heavy (instead of light).

I can't honestly see what could cause the changes mentioned by Tribal

melee hit rate is in battle_config.xml so if that file was not touched then it must be same as previous versions

i agree with both you and Denethor on cav anyway

[Lifthrasir]

Edit: I know this mod is supposed to be very historically accurate. One thing I really like is how the Holy Roman Empire is so huge. It makes them a force to be reckoned with like they were historically, while in regular Stainless Steel they never do well since they aren't as powerful compared to their neighbors, and are so central.

One thing you might want to do is make Henry II an infant. He is a future King of England and is born 1 year after the early start date. He might even be made the heir. In the Titanium mod the Troubles are represented, a civil war between Stephen de Blois and Henrys daughter Matilda representing her son. It would be great if that could somehow be done in this mod as well, though the AI would need scripts dealing with it. Also Robert Curthose, who was a prisoner at this time, had a son William Clito who died in 1128, he could be added to the family tree as a dead character.

Denmark's heir Magnus has a younger brother Ingolf, but I don't think that he existed historically. Currently in the Danish Civil War Denmark is represented by King Niels who lost to Eric II, who is a rebel. I'm not sure how that should be handled since all of these characters died in that decade. I want to do more research on the Danish royal family now.

I'm enjoying my Denmark game a lot, thanks for the work!

Thanks for your kind words.
Regarding family trees, we're aware that they still need quite some work. It's on progress, slowly but surely

Love the mod it works like charm... i like how christian factions have demi lancers and hungary and serbia have dismounted bandundium( I mispelled it there). Was it intentianal to not have city of Inverness and Kerak or is it just me? A lot more units.... I like that and more factions to play with. 1 question though does anyone what surface works best for a wireless mouse bc does not work on my blanket?

Thanks as well. Inverness has been replaced by Aberdeen. If my memory serves me well, Kerak has been replaced by Aqaba. In both cases, that seems to be a better choice

melee hit rate is in battle_config.xml so if that file was not touched then it must be same as previous versions

i agree with both you and Denethor on cav anyway

As far as I can remember, I haven't touched that file.

[sullivanclan1]

Makes sense now! One more question was it intentional to not give siberia less cities then the original ss or not? I mean Russia should have the same amount of cities as the mod. Same with Bruges and antwerp what did u replace them with?

[Lifthrasir]

Flanders is too tiny to get all due settlements actually.
The russian steppes weren't that populated during that period.

[sullivanclan1]

Really? huh! Same with Egypt... intentional for less cities or not?

[Lifthrasir]

Regions in SSHIP are based on 2 main factors:
1. Population
2. Historical importance
All the discussion about this can be found in the.original thread in the stickies of this subforum (10 or 20 first pages at least).

[Zooasaurus]

This is a feature of this mod, sorry.

Say, is there a way to tweak this somehow, either manually or with minimods? I do agree that it's kinda frustrating to have your cities rebels every 2-3 turns

[Lifthrasir]

Unfortunately, MWY is inactive for 1.5 years now but I think that you need to check the script to tweak that feature

[Dekhatres]

Say, is there a way to tweak this somehow, either manually or with minimods? I do agree that it's kinda frustrating to have your cities rebels every 2-3 turns

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...imod-for-SSHIP

[j.a.luna]

A question sship developers, about religious order and religious characters

-where are the settlements for recruit templar troops? In my campaign only can recruit templars in holy land( Acre,Jerusalem, Antioch...) But i can recruit hospitalers and teutonic religious troops in many settlements of Europe,same for Santiago order in Spain... I dont know why
-sometime ago, i see a minimod where exist a headquarter for each religious order, and if you control this settlement with for example the templar headquarter or the teutonic headquarter your general receive the tittle of master of temple order and good benefits for the settlement( money, law and healthy bonus), my question is... Is it historically correct for sship? It is possible implement in a easy form? I think that is also very flavour for the game
-about religious characters in the game i saw that in the next release will hace ecumenic patriarch, it is really a good new for the game control this important character in the game.... But now is possible make the same for pagans and muslims?is it historically correct? Make the Great Iman of Bagdhad,one per all factions muslims, you need control Bagdad settlement, new strat model and improve all relations with muslims factions...i read some time ago about the important figure of Caliph of Baghdad but he was both "king and religious figure"
Maybe the same for Cuman and lituanians, make the Great Chaman

-and the last question about religious order,i know that for templar order have a lot of much units than the other religious orders as Santiago, hospitallers and Teutonic orders ... I think that this should be rebalanced making "sergeant class" for all orders, not only knights class and maybe delete other "no important" templars units as templars crossbowmen( sergeant class) and knight foot templar ( they are knights as knights templar with swords and shields but they have great axes), squires templars also are sergeant class... I dont know if it is for give more templar military power or old releases as crusades expansion