SSHIP - General Discussion

[j.a.luna]

Guys - just in case you like this mod and want to vote for it in moddb:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/sship

That would make the mod more popular!

Voted!!! For me is the best historical mod for medieval 2 total war!

[Thorbjorn Jagelund]

Tips for Lithuania on VH


Hi folks, I've been meaning to start a campaign with Lithuania on very hard but their religion, position and the compostion of their early troops kinda scare me. I'm an experienced player with hunderds of hours but there is always more stuff to learn, so I come to you. Does anyone have any tips, strategies and overall ideas about a very hard campaign on what I think is the weakest faction in the game? I usually like to play with a few home rules like not spying on settlements without a spy and stuff like that but I'm willing to let go of some of my principles because I honestly don't know how to approach this. Also do the lithuanians become christian at some point, or are there other major events I should know like the Georgian faction events?

Thanks in advance,
Thor

[Jurand of Cracow]

Tips for Lithuania on VH
Hi folks, I've been meaning to start a campaign with Lithuania on very hard but their religion, position and the compostion of their early troops kinda scare me. I'm an experienced player with hunderds of hours but there is always more stuff to learn, so I come to you. Does anyone have any tips, strategies and overall ideas about a very hard campaign on what I think is the weakest faction in the game? I usually like to play with a few home rules like not spying on settlements without a spy and stuff like that but I'm willing to let go of some of my principles because I honestly don't know how to approach this. Also do the lithuanians become christian at some point, or are there other major events I should know like the Georgian faction events?
Thanks in advance,
Thor

I'd think Portugal is the weakest faction due to being sandwiched in the corner. I'd guess Lithuania can have a better base for expansion - if only it manages to keep a limited number of wars. I also think Lithuania has some strong units, especially (unhistorical) cavalry.
No special events yet, the faction evolution has not been scripted besides automatic events:

	monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType lithuania		if I_SettlementOwner Kernave = lithuania
		and RandomPercent < 40


			if not I_EventCounter LITHUANIA3_MINDAUGAS == 1
			and I_TurnNumber > 200


				log -------------------- Lithuania evolution: (3) MINDAUGAS ----------------------------------------
				add_events
					event	historic LITHUANIA3_MINDAUGAS factions { hungary, poland, hre, russia, kievan_rus, cumans, norway, denmark, }
					date	0
					position 249, 240												; Kernave
				end_add_events


				if not I_IsFactionAIControlled lithuania
					inc_event_counter lithuania3_mindaugas_player 1
				end_if
			end_if


			if not I_EventCounter LITHUANIA5_LITHUANIAN_EMPIRE == 1
			and I_EventCounter LITHUANIA3_MINDAUGAS == 1
			and I_TurnNumber > 300


				log -------------------- Lithuania evolution: (5) LITHUANIAN_EMPIRE ----------------------------------------
				add_events
					event	historic LITHUANIA5_LITHUANIAN_EMPIRE factions { hungary, poland, hre, russia, kievan_rus, cumans, norway, denmark, }
					date	0
					position 249, 240												; Kernave
				end_add_events
				if not I_IsFactionAIControlled lithuania
					inc_event_counter lithuania5_lithuanian_empire_player 1
				end_if
			end_if


		end_if
	end_monitor

I think it the September version has already the initial financial support as other small factions, I also recall that the Vilnius Castle is in that version - you need a certain (3rd?) level of it to get the crown.

[j.a.luna]

sship team, at the beginning of the byzantine campaign, irc there is a general/family member who is an "Usurper" (in the campaign map he appears with the emperor unit model, something very cool because he dresses in his clothes in defiance of the true emperor), but really what are the detriments of having a usurper and conspirators in your kingdom? you can still use them for battles and control armies and the cities have not revolted against you... irc this usurper general is located in Korintos city.
Is there any way for them to go rogue, have an army and fight against you?

[kostic]

In my campaign with Aragon and the one with France, the usurpers are very annoying because they end up causing civil wars with cities that rebel or whose level of satisfaction drops.


Playing in VH/VH, I find these campaigns really (too?) difficult, especially because of the additional costs that make the economy fragile.

1 - I have no complaints about paying for weddings and enthronement fees for a new king or prince, but I find the cost of moving an army too high as it prohibits strategies to attack on multiple fronts at the same time time.

2 - I also don't like the fact that my economy collapses after the appearance of a loyalist army or at the end of a crusade... Indeed, this often appears after the loss of a city (loss of income) and causes costs that a small kingdom cannot afford. My idea would be to make this army free.

3 - In my 2 campaigns, the French faction is repeatedly attacked by the Hre regardless of the crushing defeats I inflict on it, and it systematically refuses any offer of peace. Same thing with my Aragonese campaign. This time it is the French who attack me repeatedly. I can never get peace with them. I seem to have read that you have to pay a large sum of money to get it. I think this is not historical, nor possible because the player must constantly recruit to defend himself (and garrisons his garrisons so as not to be attacked by another faction, Leon/Castile is waiting for that to attack me). He never has enough money to ask for peace or an alliance. In the Middle Ages, there were many other arguments than that of money to make a peace treaty.

4 - In VH/VH, the player's economy is strained and that's fair. What's wrong is that I feel like the AI ​​doesn't have the same conditions. She is able to deploy armies on several fronts and renew them on the next turn even when she has suffered heavy losses. I find that this imbalance, plus the fact that the aggressor refuses peace, even after several crushing defeats, ends up making the game boring.

I make these remarks here because I would like to have the opinion of all the players (who play in VH/VH)


My campaign with France reached the year 1173, that with Aragon 1165.
Perhaps my criticisms will be less relevant when I reach the 14th century !

[Jurand of Cracow]

In my campaign with Aragon and the one with France, the usurpers are very annoying because they end up causing civil wars with cities that rebel or whose level of satisfaction drops.

Playing in VH/VH, I find these campaigns really (too?) difficult, especially because of the additional costs that make the economy fragile.

1 - I have no complaints about paying for weddings and enthronement fees for a new king or prince, but I find the cost of moving an army too high as it prohibits strategies to attack on multiple fronts at the same time time.

2 - I also don't like the fact that my economy collapses after the appearance of a loyalist army or at the end of a crusade... Indeed, this often appears after the loss of a city (loss of income) and causes costs that a small kingdom cannot afford. My idea would be to make this army free.

3 - In my 2 campaigns, the French faction is repeatedly attacked by the Hre regardless of the crushing defeats I inflict on it, and it systematically refuses any offer of peace. Same thing with my Aragonese campaign. This time it is the French who attack me repeatedly. I can never get peace with them. I seem to have read that you have to pay a large sum of money to get it. I think this is not historical, nor possible because the player must constantly recruit to defend himself (and garrisons his garrisons so as not to be attacked by another faction, Leon/Castile is waiting for that to attack me). He never has enough money to ask for peace or an alliance. In the Middle Ages, there were many other arguments than that of money to make a peace treaty.

4 - In VH/VH, the player's economy is strained and that's fair. What's wrong is that I feel like the AI ​​doesn't have the same conditions. She is able to deploy armies on several fronts and renew them on the next turn even when she has suffered heavy losses. I find that this imbalance, plus the fact that the aggressor refuses peace, even after several crushing defeats, ends up making the game boring.

I make these remarks here because I would like to have the opinion of all the players (who play in VH/VH)


My campaign with France reached the year 1173, that with Aragon 1165.
Perhaps my criticisms will be less relevant when I reach the 14th century !

From my perspective:
- the usurpers should be annoying, this was the main preoccupation of the rulers in the Middle Ages... but it may well be not for a computer game. There's the Next Heir code in the SSHIP, but one would need to review it and activate. I have nothing against, but I'm not going to do it myself.
- 1. this is intended. There should be no multiple attacks by a player.
- 2. disband the armies.
- 3. yeah, this is @Macaras stuff.
- 4. I agree. The limits in recruitment pools should make it not possible for the AI. Maybe there's a bug that give the AI unlimited pools? I don't know, I thought there was not.
Upload saves for both campaigns, pls.

[j.a.luna]

Ok but is there no way that a character who becomes a usurper with 0 loyalty and those with 0 loyalty can become a rebel? as well as to make the army and city that they manage at that moment rebel.
Since for example in the case of my Byzantine campaign, the usurper Andronikos Konmenos lodged in Korintos city I can still manage for my empire without any harm, the city where he is does not reflect much public disorder for it either.
perhaps the trait of usurper and conspirator should be given -100% public disorder, and some trait to make it favorable for them to become "rebels" (slaves faction)

[kostic]

@j.a.luna's idea is interesting, but the player should be able to choose his heir with this option.


Here are backups of my games with France and Aragon.
I am understanding with @Jurand but I find it a shame to have to dismiss units that are supposed to help me. Similarly, crossed units exhaust themselves over time. They are usually away from the realm and I think they should remain free for the player (unless they are in the legitimate realm ?).

France 1161
Aragon 1165

I posted here a chronology of my play with the kingdom of France. Despite my complaints, I had fun !

[Melakhor]

Does anyone want to play a sship hotseat campaign? If we could get around 5 people, hopefully more but I doubt it, to play catholic factions in Europe we could have a pretty interesting campaign. Not looking for the type of hotseat where we try to blitz each other off the map. Rather, more of a balance between what was historic and general gameplay. If so, send me a message on discord, Melakhor#0250.

Main rules would be
- can't use spies to open gates,
- can't sally out unless you have at least half the units as the attacker.

Honour rules would be where such actions mark you as unhonourable and ruin your reputation
- declaring war by just attacking rather than declaring intentions through mail/diplomacy,
- breaking alliances during war,
- attacking your previous ally for however many turns after breaking the alliance.

Even if you aren't interested, what could some home rules be to make multiplayer campaigns a touch more historic but still make fun interactive wars?

[murat97]

The crusade system is very flawed. If the mod cares about history, it should fix this system. There was rare participation in the crusade from countries other than HRE, England, France. However, in every crusade, most Catholic factions join the crusade. This can be fixed like this:

1. There can be more than one crusade option at the same time, as in history. AI can recruit Poland, HRE, Hungary, Denmark, Norway to crusade in the Baltics. Do not attend the Reconquista from outside Iberia. Because I know that in history, no European royal army came to the Reconquista except volunteer soldiers. AI can also involve HRE, France, England, Venice, Hungary in the crusade to the Holy Land. Only the player can join the crusade anywhere.

During the 2nd Crusade, the Crusaders always fought the Greek army in Minor Asia and these wars were very bloody. In the game, the Greek army can attack the crusaders advancing in Anatolia, or surprise armies can be created as special rebels for the crusader scenario.

3. No matter which faction of the imam who made the call for jihad, only that faction can participate in the jihad. That's what happened in history.


4. When the crusade in the Middle East is successful, there should be an option that the city should be given to the Crusader States. I think it can be done in vanilla as there is a similar mechanism for Roma. Or my crusader general can join the crusader faction directly with his army and the city -which I would love to see-


5. Finally, as in history, all crusader armies must be allies. Even hostile Catholic factions fought together in the crusade. That's how it should be in the game.

[murat97]

I wrote the second item wrong and I didn't know how to fix it so I wanted to write it again. During the Crusades, Turkish armies in Anatolia were always attacking the crusaders. I would like to see this in game too.

[FlavioGalerio]

Crusades are a hardcoded game mechanic and can't be modified.

[Belovèse]

Well actually points 2, 4 and 5 might somewhat be doable, at least partially. Thanks for the interesting suggestions! We are now more polishing the mod for release than adding new features, but I'll keep the ideas in mind

[j.a.luna]

Would it be possible to add in sship mod the "noble houses" as ancillaries and that they have been inherited between the characters? some mods like bellum crucis or tsardom have these features and I think it would be quite immersive to the game, something like the game of thrones series where you have a reigning "house or dynasty" with its own heraldry and ancillarie, plus this would make it much more real civil wars... could be between 3 or 4 per faction perhaps at the beginning of the game, and the player is in charge of maintaining them or marrying them together so they don't become extinct.

[Jurand of Cracow]

possible, but I doubt we'd go in that direction. there're enough ancillaries in game to fill up to 8.

[j.a.luna]

possible, but I doubt we'd go in that direction. there're enough ancillaries in game to fill up to 8.

Ok Jurand, so maybe instead of the ancillaries it could be through the traits I say it to somehow differentiate and maintain the great noble houses, for example for England the "Plantagenet" to the "Blois" and others...



+++-On the other hand , talking about Jihads in the game, I have noticed in my Egyptian campaign that in the list of settlements to declare a Jihad, only a few come to you but the main cities like Rome or Constantinople do not come to declare a Jihad, do you need to make enemies with these factions before? What do you need to appear on that list? I think these 2 cities should always come permanently in Jihad for Muslims, just like Jerusalem or Cairo / Baghdad for Christians.

[Mikhail Stepanoff]

Hi guys! Is it possible to implement the feature of rebuilding of Hagya Sofia into the mosque by Sultanate of Rum?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hi guys! Is it possible to implement the feature of rebuilding of Hagya Sofia into the mosque by Sultanate of Rum?

yes, it is. I've actually thought about it and it would be one of the projects in the future. A Turkish religion-specific building chain "Turbe" will come probably first, with a few unique building in cities like Konya, Isfahan and Urgench.

[Jason the Argonaut]

I'm a little confused about how to interpret the map displayed in the faction info scroll/window. My understanding is that it shows the regions you need to control to have your leader crowned, but for some factions the display has two maps and I'm unsure what that means. For example, as Venice, there's a map on the left with only a few regions in Italy and Croatia, as well as a couple of islands, highlighted, but then next to it on the right is another map with more Italian regions colored in but none of the Mediterranean islands showing. Is one meant for short settings and the other for long? How are those maps meant to be interpreted?

Thanks!

[Jurand of Cracow]

I'm a little confused about how to interpret the map displayed in the faction info scroll/window. My understanding is that it shows the regions you need to control to have your leader crowned, but for some factions the display has two maps and I'm unsure what that means. For example, as Venice, there's a map on the left with only a few regions in Italy and Croatia, as well as a couple of islands, highlighted, but then next to it on the right is another map with more Italian regions colored in but none of the Mediterranean islands showing. Is one meant for short settings and the other for long? How are those maps meant to be interpreted?
Thanks!

Two alternatives. Have a look here.