Thread: SSHIP - General Discussion

  1. #5281
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Dear SSHIP players, as we plan to re-work the Serbian roster, we need info, especially for the very early era (12th century).
    We'd be grateful if those who have info and pics (plz, don't use Osprey one ) can share their treasure in this thread.
    Many thanks in advance
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  2. #5282

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Dear SSHIP players, as we plan to re-work the Serbian roster, we need info, especially for the very early era (12th century).
    We'd be grateful if those who have info and pics (plz, don't use Osprey one ) can share their treasure in this thread.
    Many thanks in advance
    Ook, I have contributed my 2 cents Lifth
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  3. #5283
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Unfortunately, nothing we can use for the roster during the 12th century. But thanks anyway.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; March 24, 2020 at 09:37 AM.
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  4. #5284
    kostic's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    @ j.a.luna: I find your infos very useful, even if your illustrations do not give too much details on the aspect of warriors in the 12th century. The appearance of knights will evolve towards more western outfits over the 13th century. I think that for the start of the game, we should be able to give a more oriental aspect (Russian side) to the knights, especially with more pointed helmets ...
    In any case, thank you for sharing !

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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    ^^ Russian???
    Greek or Bulgarian seems more logical.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; March 24, 2020 at 11:52 AM.
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  6. #5286
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    @kostic, I'd explore the mod Tsardoms for more information. And mayby ask somebody for advice. I don't think it's so easy.
    For the 15th century the pics by j.a.luna are indeed useful. They show how crossobow was frequently used (similar development in Poland).

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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Aren't Serbian troops made up of a mixture of Slavs and Bulgarians ? The Bulgarian Druzhina seem to resemble in part the Russian cavalry ... I am not an expert on these regions. I could be wrong.

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    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Serbian warfare was Slavic in origin, influenced by the Romaioi and the Italians. Very much Western style at the end of the MA.
    Bulgarian warfare was nomadic in origin, but integrated the Slavic styles and was much influenced by the Romaioi.
    Russian was Slavic plus Norse plus Finnish, then heavily influenced by the nomads. And actually very different in the north and in the south.
    Frankly speaking, it's better not to start making such units without a good book (I'm not sure if Osprey is good enough, I've got the issue on the Polish medieval troops and, well, one can use it but more info is better).

  9. #5289

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    norway's and denmark's general bodyguards are not horse mounted. they are hirdsmen soldiers on foot. i suppose this is intended, right? is there a date during the campaign in which also denmark and norway start to have horse mounted bodyguards?

  10. #5290

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Varmir View Post
    I will send you the last save when Mongols invaded, Byzantines betrayed me and all things fall apart. No I did not cheat. I play at Medium difficulty and managed cities well. But as I said, when Mongols invaded, all fall apart. My economy counted on the huge Khwarezmian cities ( I have conquered half of Persia as well, and Hungary and Serbia), and without them, it will all collapse. I abandoned it since I was too stupid not to make cheap spear and bardiche garrisons in these cities and started a new one as Persia with the knowledge of the previous campaign. Now I know what generals to put in which cities, which is VERY important if you want to grow them and get even more money. It is on Medium difficulty again, as I hate to have to play the agent minigame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I find your save very interesting. So what exactly happened next?[/URL]?

    I think Persian (Turk) campaign is very difficult exactly due to the Mongols - you've got 100 years to prepare for the onslaught.
    I haven't yet played a campaign on the newest build in which I get to the Mongol invasion, but out of curiosity, is there any info for it before it happens, or only when the first stacks hit the east edge of the map? I ask, because if there isn't any forewarning, then that seems a fair thing to add, both for historical reasons, and for gameplay ones. I mean, Europe and the Middle East (especially Persia) must have known the horde was moving west long before the horde actually arrived, and so it seems likewise legitimate for the player to get an info scroll warning of the new threat rising, so that (s)he can do some last minute preparations for the coming storm. It'S also a pretty simple thing to add, so it doesn't place any real burden on the SSHIP team. Thoughts?
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    But you have already a warning message poping up a few turns before the Mongols appear if my memory serves me well
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    For the serbian roster we have plenty of pics in churches that show warriors identical to scoutatoi And ere militia like .What i am about to do is this. Make different textures for the basic ere roster. Militia with spears, javelinmen ( ere used rus and slavs so, here you go ) bowmen, scoutatoi spear and sword, a more heavy bowmen unit on par with mourtatoi and that is all. Plus 3 bulgarian units, one medium nowmen, one horse archer and one medium spearmen. If you have any objections tell me before i get started.

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    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by nikossaiz View Post
    For the serbian roster we have plenty of pics in churches that show warriors identical to scoutatoi And ere militia like .What i am about to do is this. Make different textures for the basic ere roster. Militia with spears, javelinmen ( ere used rus and slavs so, here you go ) bowmen, scoutatoi spear and sword, a more heavy bowmen unit on par with mourtatoi and that is all. Plus 3 bulgarian units, one medium nowmen, one horse archer and one medium spearmen. If you have any objections tell me before i get started.
    The Serbian church tradition was brought from the Greeks. This is why the pictures show the Byzantine (or even late Roman) warrior saints, and warriros. The kings and princes were styled in this manner - this was the source of legitimacy.
    The soldiers, on the other hand, were using the Western panoply - armour, swords, crossbows. The pics provided by j.a.luna show it very well for 14-15 century, but this was the rule also before (perhaps to a lesser extent).
    In some way, these were two different worlds of cultural influence, mixing at times, of course.

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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    You have propably right, though crossbows and the like would have to wait for many many turns before introduced to serbian roster. A funny fact. I was on jordan for a roadtrip and i visit an orthodox church from the 13 century. Well, the saits were armed like arabs. Is not the rule but people those days hadnt history channel or osprey so they draw what they could see. Like pics show alexander the great clad with full plate armor.

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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser29 View Post
    norway's and denmark's general bodyguards are not horse mounted. they are hirdsmen soldiers on foot. i suppose this is intended, right? is there a date during the campaign in which also denmark and norway start to have horse mounted bodyguards?
    it's intended and there's a date for introduction of the mounted BG, but I don't remember when.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    I haven't yet played a campaign on the newest build in which I get to the Mongol invasion, but out of curiosity, is there any info for it before it happens, or only when the first stacks hit the east edge of the map? I ask, because if there isn't any forewarning, then that seems a fair thing to add, both for historical reasons, and for gameplay ones. I mean, Europe and the Middle East (especially Persia) must have known the horde was moving west long before the horde actually arrived, and so it seems likewise legitimate for the player to get an info scroll warning of the new threat rising, so that (s)he can do some last minute preparations for the coming storm. It'S also a pretty simple thing to add, so it doesn't place any real burden on the SSHIP team. Thoughts?
    There's a message as Lifth said.
    Besides, in 1220 it was very unexpected then 1336 in Russia as well. The 1241 in Hungary could have been expected (there're diplomats reporting on the fate of the Rus and Volgha Bulgar) but nobody imagined it in practice. Just think how we're learning the consequences of corona disaster. Decades later everybody will be surprised how we didn't see it coming (I mean the economic breakdown).

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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    In addition, actually, only Norway should have dismounted BG in the early game and should evolve later on to mounted one. Denmark should start with mounted BG. That's a mistake actually
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  17. #5297

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    I don't see a discussion page in the mini mods section so I figure I'd fish for opinions here.

    If I was going to make a high period campaign and included the Latin Empire would I be better off leaving the Byzantines in or just making them rebels. Epirus, Nicaea, and Trebizond were doing their own things but it wouldn't be fair to just make one of them a faction. I'm not even sure there's enough slots to support both Latins and Greeks.
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    If you plan to start from 1204, ERE was still existing somehow but in Anatolia. If you want to make ERE and Latin Kingdoms together, then you'll need to remove one of the other existing factions. All slots are currently used in SSHIP.

    Actually, that's quite ambitious if you really want to stay accurate as the factions in game would be different to the one we currently have in the early era.
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  19. #5299

    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    For a late start, you would also need a Second Bulgarian Tsardom. Pisa should also be swapped out for Genoa, Almohads for Almoravids, Zengids/Fatimids with the Ayyubids, and Khwarezm replacing Seljuks. As for freeing up faction slots, Sicily could be absorbed as part of the Holy Roman Empire, and with the Zengids/Fatimids being replaced, leaves enough slots for the addition of both Bulgaria and the Latin Empire. Cilician Armenia would also provide a unique roster, though I don't know which faction would it could replace. I guess it's a matter of which two of the Nicene Empire, Latin Empire, and Cilician Armenia you would want to include.

  20. #5300
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP - General Discussion

    It would be great if you'd prepare some modification for the high campaign.

    I've posted some material for reference, there's also some information in the Info subforum (please provide more info on the factions, if you are able to).

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