SSHIP - General Discussion

[Lifthrasir]

That's actually good as long it happens randomly

@ JoC, how your work on traits affects the AI generals? Is it working the same way as for the human player?

[Eodez]

Didn't see this question asked before but are there any particular recommended difficulty setting for SSHIP? I normally play VH/H.

[Lifthrasir]

Anything from H/H and above is fine. VH/VH is supposed to be the best. However, it really depends on your tastes

[Jason Wolf]

What is the differents in Difficulty between H/H and VH/VH? I planning on starting a Byzantine campaign soon and wanted to know the best difficulty setting to have it on. Thanks.

[Lifthrasir]

In VH/VH, all SSHIP features are optimized.

[Jason Wolf]

okay thanks.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Didn't see this question asked before but are there any particular recommended difficulty setting for SSHIP? I normally play VH/H.

I think this is a sound setting. I play vh/vh and it doesn't get too difficult.

The campaign VH makes now (after my patches) a bit more difficult, as the initial Loyalty is now 2 at Hard and 1 at Very Hard (previously it was always 3, as is now for Normal).

For the Byzantines VH/VH is the best, and I expect it to be a rather easy campaign.

@ JoC, how your work on traits affects the AI generals? Is it working the same way as for the human player?

Yes, the traits affect the AI generals. However, there're some exceptions (condition "FactionIsLocal") in the triggers, and there're a few additional hidden traits that beef up the AI generals.

[Lurker from Codex]

Sorry if I'm being annoying lately, but there are numerous historical mistakes regarding Novgorod that need to be rectified. I'm actually surprised by the amount of detail you gave to minor characters like Vasilko Sviatoslavich (independent general guarding Polotsk), but made so many mistakes in actual playable faction. Feels even more weird that you did everything right with Kievan Rus, as if the research for KR and Novgorod was done by different people. Anyway, here goes:

1. A typo in faction leader's name (he was Vsevolod, not Vselovod)
2. The game starts at 1132. Vsevolod was 29, not 44.
3. Svyatoslav Olgovich was actually younger than Vsevolod, not older. He was 25 at 1132, not 50.
4. Oleg Olgovich, son of Svyatoslav, wasn't even born in 1132. He was born in 1137.
5. Vsevolod's wife is named Svyatoslava Chernigovskii..? Okay, this one deserves a separate paragraph.

The ONLY thing we know about Vsevolod's wife is her father. His name was Svyatoslav Chernigovskii. He was quite an important historical figure, but nothing is known about his daughter: not her name, not her age, only the fact she was married to Vsevolod Mstislavich. I need to stress it out: SHE was married to Vsevolod, not HER FATHER. Russian wiki says her name was probably Anna, but I failed to find the source. Might as well be Anna for all I care. Anything but Svyatoslava Chernigovskii.

6. In the game Vsevolod has two children: Ivan and Vysheslava. Ivan is dead (which is true, he died in 1128). Vsevolod lost another child in 1128 - his daughter Anna (Yanka), she died as a baby just like Ivan. But that's not important. Vysheslava is 7 at the start of the game, which is surprisingly accurate given you made Vsevolod 44 years old. Your spelling of her name is slightly surprising - I found numerous versions of it(Viacheslava, Verhuslava, Wierzchoslawa), but not a single mention of Vysheslava. And okay, I can see where this is coming from - not crucial.

But what about Vladimir? Vsevolod had two sons: Ivan who died in 1128 and Vladimir who was held hostage by Novgorodians during the events of 1136, when Novgorod became a republic. Vladimir played a crucial role during the exile of Vsevolod, they nominated this little boy as Prince of Novgorod right after exiling his father (basically an excuse to hold young Vladimir as a hostage).

The exact birth date of Vladimir is unknown, but we know that he was underaged for the role of Prince of Novgorod. Maybe make him 8 or 9 years old at the start of the game?

7. This is a suggestion. Oleg Olgovich needs to go, he doesn't belong to 1132. Why don't you replace him with Sviatopolk Mstislavich? He is the son of Mstislav Monomakh (faction leader of Kievan Rus) and Vsevolod's younger brother. Mstislav had many children, including four sons (well, SIX if we count his second marriege, but let's not): Vsevolod (faction leader of Novgorod), Iziaslav (playable general of Kievan Rus), Rostislav (playable general of Kievan Rus), and Sviatopolk (not represented in the game). Sviatopolk was actually a Prince of Novgorod for a short while. I believe he was Novgorod's faction leader either in SS 6.4 or Titanium submod. He would definitetely fit better than Oleg Olgovich.

8. Pskov wasn't really a part of Novgorod Republic until 1136, it was an independent state. In fact, there was no Novgorod Republic until 1136. Also, do you have to name it Pleskov..? I know it was called like that in 903 (or rather mentioned as Pleskov in archaic piece of literature "Povest Vremennih Let" that was written in 903). But there is no reason to keep it named Pleskov in 1132.

I thought of providing links to the info, but I only used Russian sources. Tell me if you need them. English ones are very lacking on the Russian history.

[j.a.luna]

Mmm interesting information about Novgorod! I think that sship developers can answer you, but also you have to consider that still the mod is not complete and they continue improve it.
If you have knowledge about russian medieval history, you could comment about russian unit roster in sship? ( Novgorod, Kievan Rus, Cumans) , do you think that is all correct or need to improve russians units rosters?

[Lurker from Codex]

If you have knowledge about russian medieval history, you could comment about russian unit roster in sship? ( Novgorod, Kievan Rus, Cumans) , do you think that is all correct or need to improve russians units rosters?

Do you mean historical or gameplay perspective? Can't really comment on Cumans, but Novgorod and Kievan Rus both have historically authentic units. Swords were extremely rare, sabres were actually more common than swords. I believe only Druzhina and Boyar units use swords - I would arm Druzhina with sabres/axes instead, since they are pretty cheap for professional military units in the game. But again, it's not an eyesore or anything.

Crossbow (Samostrel) was an EXTREMELY rare weapon, I don't think that crossbow militia makes sense. Modern archeologists found thousands of arrowheads, and only 50 (!) bolt heads. Bows were way more wide-spread.

Maces and flails were also widely used throughout both Novgorod and Kievan Rus.

Not sure about bardiches in 1132, but that's okay. Bardiche militia makes no sense from gameplay perspective. Senior Rus Militia is better as an urban militia (same upkeep more or less, but 200 soldiers in each unit compared to 151 of bardiche militia). Bardiche militia is pretty useless on the battlefield (woodsmen can do the same for less money), only have one armor upgrade (senior rus militia has 2, woodsmen also have one), and don't generally work as shock troops (lower morale due to urban militia; no armor). Better wait for professional bardiche troops from castles.

Junior Druzhina is a cumbersome name. They were called Отроки ("Otrok", plural "Otroki"), or sometimes Гриди ("Grid", plural "Gridi").

Rus/Novgorod troops look gorgeous, though. And authentic.

Relevant:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Lifthrasir]

@ Lurker, thanks for your inputs and info. There's a dedicated thread about these factions here. Feel free to post your info/suggestion, remarks there. Meanwhile, I can copy your post in there if you agree
The actual models for Novgorod and Kievan Rus were made by the Rusishi team who made all their material free of use. Their work is very valuable for the Rus factions.

[Lurker from Codex]

I can copy your post in there if you agree

Sure thing. Still struggling to understand the structure of this subforum. You have 0.96 release thread, a separate general discussion thread, separate threads for specific nations, separate thread for AAR postings, yet another one for bugs. So excuse me for posting in the wrong one, and feel free to merge my posts wherever they belong to.

Also, love your mod, despite its occasional flaws. I only wish you had more manpower of experienced modders to update it more frequently.

[Lifthrasir]

No worries. Actually the subforum about factions, guides and infos is quite new. We're just trying to organise things to let the player find what he needs easily. This is still not perfect but it's on progress.
Regarding your "flaws", that's fine. We accept critics, good and bad, as long as they're constructive

Edit: I've copied your post in the relevant thread

[j.a.luna]

Do you mean historical or gameplay perspective? Can't really comment on Cumans, but Novgorod and Kievan Rus both have historically authentic units. Swords were extremely rare, sabres were actually more common than swords. I believe only Druzhina and Boyar units use swords - I would arm Druzhina with sabres/axes instead, since they are pretty cheap for professional military units in the game. But again, it's not an eyesore or anything.

Crossbow (Samostrel) was an EXTREMELY rare weapon, I don't think that crossbow militia makes sense. Modern archeologists found thousands of arrowheads, and only 50 (!) bolt heads. Bows were way more wide-spread.

Maces and flails were also widely used throughout both Novgorod and Kievan Rus.

Not sure about bardiches in 1132, but that's okay. Bardiche militia makes no sense from gameplay perspective. Senior Rus Militia is better as an urban militia (same upkeep more or less, but 200 soldiers in each unit compared to 151 of bardiche militia). Bardiche militia is pretty useless on the battlefield (woodsmen can do the same for less money), only have one armor upgrade (senior rus militia has 2, woodsmen also have one), and don't generally work as shock troops (lower morale due to urban militia; no armor). Better wait for professional bardiche troops from castles.

Junior Druzhina is a cumbersome name. They were called Отроки ("Otrok", plural "Otroki"), or sometimes Гриди ("Grid", plural "Gridi").

Rus/Novgorod troops look gorgeous, though. And authentic.

Relevant:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

@Lurker regarding this is both, historical and gameplay, is true that rusichi team have the best units models for these russians factions and if is possible sship should implement all their units and unit strat map models, are better than vainilla units or others... I agree about richest units should have swords as Druzhina and Boyars and the rest little axes, maces,big axes and others, also respect crossbowmen( but this were common in urban areas)
Respect berdiche militia i think that could be renamed "Rus Axemen" due to this unit actually have big axes in the game,not berdiches weapons, the professional berdiche unit called i think in the game "Berdiche Axemen" only available for Nogvorod have REAL berdiche weapons( i think that this "profesional axemen with berdiches" should be recruitable for kievan rus and Novgorod, not only for Novgorod.)
Maybe this berdiche militia or Rus Axemen could be mercenaries and also recruitable for both factions in castles in Rus lands and not be militias, i think that militias units dont have big axes, only woodsmen had and they were peasants.

Maybe is better copy these opinions in the other threads for Rus factions...

[Palaiogos]

I think it's interesting that this mod is 1 TPY! Anyways, if there was one suggestion I'd make, I wish someone could add the the change religion script to this mod

[Jurand of Cracow]

I think it's interesting that this mod is 1 TPY! Anyways, if there was one suggestion I'd make, I wish someone could add the the change religion script to this mod

It's 2 TPY.

[kostic]

What does TPY mean ?

[j.a.luna]

What does TPY mean ?

Turn per year my friend, in current sship gameplay have 2 tpy, 2 turns per year for simulate summer and winter in the game

[Kilo11]

I'm not sure this is the right spot to ask this, and I am sure this has been asked before (but I couldn't find it anywhere ), but what are the conditions for revolts? In my current playthrough of Venice I just had a couple cities go rebel on me, but they were totally happy the turn before, I did not have a change in leadership, and I can't see any other reason why that would have happened. Are random revolts just scripted in, or is there something going on I'm not seeing?

To be clear, I do not object to the revolts per se (though they are being annoying in my campaign right now). I just want to know what's causing them, so I can do some work to tamp down on them occurring again in the future.

[Lifthrasir]

There's no specific script for that as far as I know. Check your buildings. you may have built one with negative impact on your public order or have brought a general with bad traits