SSHIP - General Discussion

[Kilo11]

Yeah, the wonders do work like that, and the same idea can be recycled elsewhere. And even for those buildings close to the limit, adding a couple more stages is not necessarily a problem. The issue with the scripts though (and other triggering things) has to do with the coded names. A lot of things are coded like farms_1, farms_2, farms_3, etc., as this simplifies the code and makes it more transparent to new team members. Adding intermediate steps then means having to shuffle the numbers. I guess something like farms_1.2 might be possible, but I am not sure how punctuation potentially affects the code (I'm more on the text side of the team, less on the nitty-gritty code side). At any rate, it is definitely worth us thinking about, and I think you'll have piqued the interest of most team members with this thought.

To aesthetics, you can bet someone or other will make a slight variant for icons.

And finally, we definitely consider all suggestions! The members of the team are all thoughtful and coming up with (too many) ways to improve the mod, but community engagement is incredibly useful! So many thanks for the thoughts, and for following up on them. Do shout out if you have any other clever ideas!

[MikeFriks]

Hi everyone, a while that I did not play SSHIP so here I back recently with the version 098. I have to say, again, how amazing this mod is.
Playing currently as Venise in Hard, currently turn 50+.

RP - My King was old useless guy so the heir was the main chief, which firstly conquest rebel cities nearby. Few years after, the Holy Roman Empire declared war, and attacked with a small army, quickly defeated. Peace was then signed.

Later, a crusade brought him to the Orient, where he conquest Damascus. Unfortunately, the distance to the capital was difficult to bear for people and army, and hostile population revolted in the same time. The city was destroyed to recycle ressources et let to rebels.

The Heir then moved to Cairo after he launched a Crusade, thanks to his close friendship with the Pope. On the way to Cairo, Ascalon was taken, and offered to the Pope. Cairo was taken by Latin Kingdom, and my Heir just received a letter than his father died of oldness weeks before. He barely escaped 2 Abassids armies and took the boats that brought him to Orient, to back to Venise as a King, full of glory, at the age of 50. However, just before his departure, another letter arrived mentioning the attack of Pisa on the city of Bologna. The sea travel will take several months, without knowing if his kingdom will still be intact and if pirates will let him peace. - RP

So, my new King still doesn't know that an army led by his brother defeat a strong Pisan army in the plains near Verona. I was worry by their 4x units of mailed knights, which gave me severe damages. I managed, by the moral and the strategy, to defeat it. Pisa immediately at the next turn asked for peace, which cost them 10.000 florins. Pisa would have pushed more as they still have a strong army not so far, but I remind that they got a Jihad on their city of Tunis.

I am quite excited to continue. The threat of wars with neighbors is keeping me in constant vigilance, using spied and assassins to clean the field. Venise is struggling to expand, due to the Christian rules but as soon as my new King will back, I may do some moves !

What a pity that a turn is taking long (around a minute for now), even on SSD. It makes a session quite long at least so far, no crash no bug, very stable version. Also, the I asked the Pope to help me with Pisa, but did not attack, is it normal ?

[Macaras]

What a pity that a turn is taking long (around a minute for now), even on SSD. It makes a session quite long at least so far, no crash no bug, very stable version. Also, the I asked the Pope to help me with Pisa, but did not attack, is it normal ?

Yes, the Pope will not attack a catholic faction no matter what. It is because excommunication follows automatically and it would basically means a demise for any factions. Also that lead in the past to the papal state conquering huge parts of Europe which was not historically realistic.

[MikeFriks]

Yes, the Pope will not attack a catholic faction no matter what. It is because excommunication follows automatically and it would basically means a demise for any factions. Also that lead in the past to the papal state conquering huge parts of Europe which was not historically realistic.

It indeed makes sense. I just lost 20.000 florins

Another question : are replays deactivated ? I would loved to have a replay of my Pisa battle but no option.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Another question : are replays deactivated ? I would loved to have a replay of my Pisa battle but no option.

In my experience, it doesn't work with the mods in the Medieval 2 engine. A few years ago I've tried to find solution, there're for vanilla Med2, iirc, but for mods I've failed. It's one of the advantages of the Rome2 or Thrones of Britannia.

on my comp a turn lasts 30-40 seconds.

btw, upload a save, pls!

[Dhoule]

Could someone explain me how trade is actually calculated? How does it go from +3000 in the "trade details" (with several hundreds for each settlement the region is trading with, and even +1000 with one of them) window to +1000 in the "settlement details" one? I just don't get where do those extra 2000 florins go.

BTW, in order not to send another post: you might want to revisit conversion quests. At the rate the settlements are converted (which with I'm happy), and with the scarce amount of priests you can recruit (particularly early on), I think those quests are virtually impossible to complete. To ask for more than 10% conversion in 15 turns at that stage in the game is just not fair. Even a 5% conversion seems already really hard. The worst part is that you can usually have just one of these kind of quests active, so you're damned from the beginning of that quest to not only fail it, but to not receive a new one until all of those turns have passed, and the quest fails.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Could someone explain me how trade is actually calculated? How does it go from +3000 in the "trade details" (with several hundreds for each settlement the region is trading with, and even +1000 with one of them) window to +1000 in the "settlement details" one? I just don't get where do those extra 2000 florins go.

BTW, in order not to send another post: you might want to revisit conversion quests. At the rate the settlements are converted (which with I'm happy), and with the scarce amount of priests you can recruit (particularly early on), I think those quests are virtually impossible to complete. To ask for more than 10% conversion in 15 turns at that stage in the game is just not fair. Even a 5% conversion seems already really hard. The worst part is that you can usually have just one of these kind of quests active, so you're damned from the beginning of that quest to not only fail it, but to not receive a new one until all of those turns have passed, and the quest fails.

Settlement details provide the right number, the trade panel just shows which goods are traded. In my experience there's usually a 25% discrepancy, not 66%.
Trade is automatically counted by the game engine, see details below.
Missions are now in the hands of Macaras, it's interesting info for him, I think.

My notes on trade:

Land Trade

• Trade worth between settlements is based on
  
  • size of the settlements in terms of populations;
  • worth of goods traded;
  • level of the roads;
  • bonuses from buildings (defined in EDB, calculated on-top of the base value, ie after taking into account the populations and worth of trade goods.
  
  
• Trade value of a good is governed by:
• the base price in descr_sm_resources,
• the multiplier in descr_settlement_mechanics
• the distance of the first instance of that resource from the capital
• trade agreements have a significant effect
• provinces don't trade the same good (eg. if both produce wheat, then no trade).
• A province conducts trade with all provinces it borders with (even if there’s no road, or road is even not possible to be produced, i.e. there’s an impassable terrain) if there’s at least 1 resource produced in one settlement but not produced in the other.

Sea Trade

- if a settlement has a port, it can trade by sea with other settlements that also have a port
- no sea-trade with adjacent provinces (they do land-trade)
- at least one different resource has to be different both provinces; the more different resources qualify for export/import to/from a given province, the more lucrative sea trade with that province will be
- even your basic port can receive sea-trade from several other ports – it will happen if your province is their most lucrative choice
- 1 trade fleet allows 1 export connection to another port which is chosen based on the profitability of this connection, that depends on:
o the population of the two cities
o the value of the goods (each type of good has a certain value – eg. textiles are more worth than timber),
o the diversity of goods (how many different types goods there’re, eg. timber, fish, grain, marble, metals, etc.),
o the number of goods (a province may produce more than 1 good of the same type).
- Exports make much more than imports by a calculation based as factor of population sizes of the cities doing the trade, the level of the trade infrastructure and the value of the good. Imports make about 10-30% of the export factor based on the combination of the population of the importing and exporting cities with the added value of the trade infrastructure multipliers added to that base value

Bottom line: profitability of trade:

• sea trade routes are the single most lucrative connections;
• however, land trade bonuses are overall higher since
  
  • (1) almost all trade infrastructure benefit land trade
  • (2) there are more land trade connections
  
  
• what follows, regions with numerous land connections still generate much more trade since sea trade is capped at 3 fleets (highest level of port);
• however I may happen that a region has few neighboring regions and may share the same resources with them (for sea trade there’re more options).

[Macaras]

At the rate the settlements are converted (which with I'm happy), and with the scarce amount of priests you can recruit (particularly early on), I think those quests are virtually impossible to complete. To ask for more than 10% conversion in 15 turns at that stage in the game is just not fair. Even a 5% conversion seems already really hard. The worst part is that you can usually have just one of these kind of quests active, so you're damned from the beginning of that quest to not only fail it, but to not receive a new one until all of those turns have passed, and the quest fails.

Yes, you are right, I will try to adjust this to our conditions - postpone it in time and lower the target conversion rate. Thanks!

[MikeFriks]

In my experience, it doesn't work with the mods in the Medieval 2 engine. A few years ago I've tried to find solution, there're for vanilla Med2, iirc, but for mods I've failed. It's one of the advantages of the Rome2 or Thrones of Britannia.

on my comp a turn lasts 30-40 seconds.

btw, upload a save, pls!

Sorry for late, please find it attached.

https://easyupload.io/o03gtn

[MikeFriks]

I went to play a long session now, a lot of things happened !


On the way to back from Holy Lands, the new Dux has been attacked by pirates in the Mediterranean. He barely escaped thanks to his smart strategy, using diversion (low priority boats) to lure pirates. It worked well and the Dux could join nearest island of Chandax to rest. But mens were tired, on the verge to mutine, and mercenaries hired during Crusade were less motivated to follow the army. Hence, the Dux decided to attack the city of Chandax, and declared war on the Byzantine Empire. The Dux had the plan to do it, but he would prefer later after gather mens and ressources. The castle was barely defended so it was quite easy to take it. It became then a city, to flourish under Venise Kingdom.

What the Dux did not know is that his territories was about the be ruined, economically and humanely. The HRE declared again war, and directly attacked the beautiful city of Venice. The brother of the Dux gathered as many mens as possible and attacked the of rear of the HRE army, composed by half with mercenaries from Holy Lands. The battle happened on a bridge, the brother's King pushed the HRE army to attack and crosse the bridge, as they were pinched between city and Venise army. The battle was terrible, many mens died, being cut and drowned in the river. Ennemy was wiped out, the HRE got a big blow in their force, which calm down the situation on the continent.

The main trouble happened inside the Kingdom, where a Byzantine assassin killed 2 brothers of the Dux in a row, leaving the family as 2 people only. The assassin was found in a tavern outside the city of Verona, thanks to a competent spy, and immediately executed in front of people. His head was brought to the nearest Byzantine castle as a warning.


This campaign is really intense, I am suffering economically. I was really reach since the start and suddenly lost everything by wars (mercenaries, investments) and armies outside the territories. I had to kick some units, allowing me to stabilize the situation. But to be honest, I am sweating a lot, with so few money, HRE and Byzantine at war with me, small family (even if I could get a new general at the last turn). To follow :p

[Dhoule]

Is there any place where I can see which settlements allow which knights' orders to be built in them? And can you build them regardless of the type of settlement (castle vs city)?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Is there any place where I can see which settlements allow which knights' orders to be built in them? And can you build them regardless of the type of settlement (castle vs city)?

folder: mods\SSHIP_098\data\world\maps\base
file: descr_regions.txt
search for any of the three: templars_chapter_house, st_johns_chapter_house, teutonic_knights_chapter_house
yes, regardless of the type, iirc.

You may also use this tool: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...5-update/page4

btw, I don't recall if you've uploaded your save here? I'd be interested to see it :-)

[kostic]

I went to play a long session now, a lot of things happened !


On the way to back from Holy Lands, the new Dux has been attacked by pirates in the Mediterranean. He barely escaped thanks to his smart strategy, using diversion (low priority boats) to lure pirates. It worked well and the Dux could join nearest island of Chandax to rest. But mens were tired, on the verge to mutine, and mercenaries hired during Crusade were less motivated to follow the army. Hence, the Dux decided to attack the city of Chandax, and declared war on the Byzantine Empire. The Dux had the plan to do it, but he would prefer later after gather mens and ressources. The castle was barely defended so it was quite easy to take it. It became then a city, to flourish under Venise Kingdom.

What the Dux did not know is that his territories was about the be ruined, economically and humanely. The HRE declared again war, and directly attacked the beautiful city of Venice. The brother of the Dux gathered as many mens as possible and attacked the of rear of the HRE army, composed by half with mercenaries from Holy Lands. The battle happened on a bridge, the brother's King pushed the HRE army to attack and crosse the bridge, as they were pinched between city and Venise army. The battle was terrible, many mens died, being cut and drowned in the river. Ennemy was wiped out, the HRE got a big blow in their force, which calm down the situation on the continent.

The main trouble happened inside the Kingdom, where a Byzantine assassin killed 2 brothers of the Dux in a row, leaving the family as 2 people only. The assassin was found in a tavern outside the city of Verona, thanks to a competent spy, and immediately executed in front of people. His head was brought to the nearest Byzantine castle as a warning.


This campaign is really intense, I am suffering economically. I was really reach since the start and suddenly lost everything by wars (mercenaries, investments) and armies outside the territories. I had to kick some units, allowing me to stabilize the situation. But to be honest, I am sweating a lot, with so few money, HRE and Byzantine at war with me, small family (even if I could get a new general at the last turn). To follow :p

Beautiful story of a player who accepts setbacks in his campaign with humility (in VH I guess).
That's the most fun with SSHIP !

[Undead Martyr]

Just came back the game after a while and I'm loving it. I do wonder if there are any plans to add new factions, such as Cilician Armenia for instance?

[Undead Martyr]

Actually (double posting since I can't edit yet) I have some suggestions for potential new factions-

Genoa- I seriously think that they should be re-added. The Papacy ain't playable after all so we could use one more Italian competing over the Mediterranean, and presuming Pisa gets her own roster the Genoese units should still be included as something more than mere mercenaries.

The Welf Faction led by Henry the Lion. This is the height of the Staufer-Welf Feud and it gives the HRE something to fight.

Aquitaine lead by Eleanor of Aquitaine. Such an obvious addition given she just broke up with Louis (or is about to!) and gives France something to fight.

The Kingdom of Cilicia perhaps?

[Belovèse]

Thanks for the suggestions and feedback! But sadly we don't have anymore free faction slots to add anyone...

[Undead Martyr]

That's a shame- I've run into that limit myself. I would strongly suggest removing Norway and possibly Scotland then since the two faction slots would be far better utilized elsewhere; they could easily be represented with a ZoR mechanic a la Armenia.

The Lombard League should either replace Pisa or be added in using Norway's slot. Milan was far more important as an obstacle to Imperial power and her roster is a much better fit for the current units and could easily be expanded with e.g. dismounted Famiglia Ducale or something. If Pisa is retained, I'd suggest Sardinian Skirmishers and Marines units for their roster; they should peak early relative to the northerners.

[kostic]

Your ideas are interesting but indeed, old discussions on the subject led to the choice of the current factions. As we have been working for several months/years on these, it will be difficult to change them today.

[Cephalophore]

Since faction slots are full and it is unlikely they'll be altered, one would have to represent minor factions with a combination of cleverness, ambiguity and historicity. I.E.

you'd have to script rebels to behave a certain way, in a certain time, under certain conditions. Since rebels are more approximately referred to as belonging to, say, a certain ethnic or cultural group.. you'd have to script Occitan rebels to spawn and attack the Franks for a certain reason...

you'd have to use opposed building trees to , for example, side with Guelph or Ghibelline. which would permanently alter your standings with other factions...

At least, that's my opinion. I personally think Serbia and Seljuks should've been Bulgaria and Khwarezmia, but... it's not feasible to make such changes now.

[j.a.luna]

is it possible that in sship mod foreign kingdoms are inherited by marriage? for example that England inherits the French kingdom if its king or heir is married to the daughter of the French king/heir and they no longer have any more generals/family members of royal blood.
I think that in other mods I have seen it possible like in Bellum Crucis, I don't know if it would be very difficult to make it possible and I think it would be totally immersive, for example creating the Kingdom of Spain with the union of Castile and León and the crown of Aragon.