SSHIP - General Discussion

[Belovèse]

Is it me or it seems that now less factions join the crusades? Could be that the joining time has been reduced to 4 turns?

Me, I haven't changed anything. Maybe Belovese minimod does, dunno.

Haven't touch at the crusades, but maybe it's an unintentionnal side effect? @kaiser29, are you using my diplomacy fix?

[george0433]

Haven't touch at the crusades, but maybe it's an unintentionnal side effect? @kaiser29, are you using my diplomacy fix?

I noticed this as well

[kaiser29]

I was playing with 0.97 patch F, but no belovese diplomacy fix. I had to give up on the campaign at around turn 60 because even with win 7 compatibility i couldn't get past that turn, and sometimes i even had difficulty in loading the savegame cuz i would get a CTD while loading there seem to be some serious bug that affect all the campaigns i tried for the moment (i tried like ten different ones). Monday i will try to download the last version linked by jurand, i'll let you know

[RodriguesSting]

Not sure this is the correct thread for that. An mod message told me it is for general development of the game, so I think it may fit.

How yall feel about Merchant Cavalry? They seem to be a very cost effective unit, that you can even field in decent numbers (specially as you will want to have many Merchant Guilds), have almost the same armor as mailed knights, have lances (charge is mediocre though), and have decent morale. That's on itself not an issue, the issue is that they seem to outmatch the Mounted Sergeants on nearly every category. The Serges defensive capabilities only get comparable to them on Gold armor upgrade, and despite the better offensive capabilities, the merchants have a much larger unit.

[removeduser_28376423423]

Not sure this is the correct thread for that. An mod message told me it is for general development of the game, so I think it may fit.

How yall feel about Merchant Cavalry? They seem to be a very cost effective unit, that you can even field in decent numbers (specially as you will want to have many Merchant Guilds), have almost the same armor as mailed knights, have lances (charge is mediocre though), and have decent morale. That's on itself not an issue, the issue is that they seem to outmatch the Mounted Sergeants on nearly every category. The Serges defensive capabilities only get comparable to them on Gold armor upgrade, and despite the better offensive capabilities, the merchants have a much larger unit.

Yes, I think having a dedicated cav unit for merchants is off, I think a generic cavalry miltia (with long spear+sword, like sergeants, not couched lances), would be better, a bit less charge bonus, less attack, no stamina or morale bonus, same armour, much lower defense skill. To deter enemy missiles and chase routers, add punch or fill the line in knightly charges, finish off depleted units, etc. Minor city and above, availability perhaps on par with mounted sergeants, but larger unit (Something like 2:2:1 considering Knights also). If we would get an armour upgrade available on some event around 1200, you could include a visual replacement of the secondary swords/axes for falchions in that model. By 1300s they should be replaced by more men at arms (plate) IMO.

[Giorgios]

Quick couple of text changes needed for the next patch...

The Byzantine name for the settlement of Nis should be Naissos.

Bithynia is misspelt as "Bythinia".

[Jurand of Cracow]

I've always thought that Merchant Cavalry is a crappy unit...

anyway, in some areas MC is replaced with other units

building guild_merchants_guild{
  levels merchants_guild m_merchants_guild gm_merchants_guild
  {
    merchants_guild city requires factions { northern_european, middle_eastern, eastern_european, greek, southern_european, }
    {
      capability
      {
        recruit_pool "Lettish Crossbowmen"  1   0.09   1  0  requires factions { lithuania, } and not event_counter MINDAUGAS 1 and hidden_resource hanse
        recruit_pool "EE Crossbow Militia"  1   0.09   1  0  requires factions { lithuania, } and not event_counter MINDAUGAS 1 and not hidden_resource hanse
        recruit_pool "Lettish Crossbowmen"  1   0.07   1  0  requires factions { lithuania, } and event_counter MINDAUGAS 1
		
        recruit_pool "Lettish Crossbowmen"  1   0.13   0  0  requires factions { denmark, poland, } and not event_counter OSTSIEDLUNG 1 and hidden_resource hanse
        recruit_pool "EE Crossbow Militia"  1   0.13   1  0  requires factions { denmark, poland, } and not event_counter OSTSIEDLUNG 1 and not hidden_resource hanse
        recruit_pool "Lettish Crossbowmen"  1   0.09   1  0  requires factions { denmark, poland, } and event_counter OSTSIEDLUNG 1


        recruit_pool "Lettish Crossbowmen"  1   0.13   0  0  requires factions { norway, hre, hungary, } and not event_counter OSTSIEDLUNG 1 and hidden_resource hanse
        recruit_pool "Lettish Crossbowmen"  1   0.09   1  0  requires factions { norway, hre, hungary, } and event_counter OSTSIEDLUNG 1 and hidden_resource hanse
		
        recruit_pool "Merchant Cavalry Militia"  1   0.126   1  0  requires factions { hre, hungary, norway, } and not hidden_resource hanse
        recruit_pool "Merchant Cavalry Militia"  1   0.03   1  0  requires factions { poland, denmark, } and not hidden_resource hanse
		
        recruit_pool "Merchant Cavalry Militia"  1   0.126   1  0  requires factions { england, scotland, france, spain, aragon, portugal, }
		
        recruit_pool "Italian Cavalry Militia"  1   0.126   1  0  requires factions { pisa, venice, papal_states, sicily, }
		
        recruit_pool "Senior Mounted Militia"  1   0.126   1  0  requires factions { russia, kievan_rus, }
		
        recruit_pool "Latin Handgunners"  1   0.13   1  0  requires factions { byzantium, } and event_counter first_watch 1
		
        recruit_pool "Arab Cavalry"  1   0.12   1  0  requires factions { moors, egypt, zengid, }
		
        agent merchant  0  requires factions { northern_european, }
        agent merchant  0  requires factions { middle_eastern, }
        agent merchant  0  requires factions { eastern_european, }
        agent merchant  0  requires factions { greek, }
        agent merchant  0  requires factions { southern_european, }
		
        agent_limit merchant 1 
        trade_base_income_bonus bonus 1
      }

[RodriguesSting]

Compared to knights, yes, they are crappy.

But so are Serjs.

It is odd to see a urban militia outmatching a semi-professional/feudal levy? unit like that, specially being that cost effective.

Castle troops, at least, tend to be more cost-effective in upkeep, to justify keeping them as permanent armies compared to city militias. The merchants seem to have nearly knight staying power (not that they should stay, but you know, sometimes you gotta do some more killing than just repeatedly charging, or have to charge some decent spearmen), which makes them far more reliable than serjs, and their upkeep is, if I remember correctly, cheaper.

Feels like they stayed out of your cost re-balancing formula, retaining their old costs and, thus, standing out compared to permanent troops.

[kaiser29]

It's the same with italian units, where urban spear militia defeats normal spearmen being more numerous, but at the same time they cost less

[Nemesis2345]

It's the same with italian units, where urban spear militia defeats normal spearmen being more numerous, but at the same time they cost less

IIRC Italian States had better militia grade troops than the regular soldiers in the west , Spearmen are also not Sergeant type so they are still lowly trained peasants. Now i wont say many troops dont need a rework in both stats and cost , they need an overhaul , one that is planned for 0.9.8 iirc.

[j.a.luna]

LOOK AT this wonderful images about byzantines settlements from Tsardom total war, it so unique and historical! It would be great if in a future sship could add this feature for different culture settlements (battle map)

[kostic]

It is true that it is beautiful!
It seems to be exclusively texture modifications.
I unfortunately have no idea what it would take to introduce such changes for the Byzantine faction.

[RodriguesSting]

IIRC Italian States had better militia grade troops than the regular soldiers in the west , Spearmen are also not Sergeant type so they are still lowly trained peasants. Now i wont say many troops dont need a rework in both stats and cost , they need an overhaul , one that is planned for 0.9.8 iirc.

The Italians only get Urban Spear Militia sooner than other Westerners, who need to wait until the Heavy Mail event. After that, possibly easier, but doesn't matter, the Spearmen are not there to compete with the USM, but with the regular SM. These, they outmatch, and are marginally cheaper upkeep-wise. So if all you got are SM and Spearmen, you are better off making your standing army with Spearmen, more good for your buck. You don't have quite an analogue to USM on the Castles, but Sarges sure as hell outmatch them.

[Marus312]

I'm on turn 90 as the HRE, really enjoying the mod. One thing I noticed is that the Islamic world has not called a single jihad, compared to the three crusades so far. It seems to be really hurting them as the moors are almost kicked out of Iberia and the crusaders are claiming land in Egypt and pushing farther east. Anyone else noticed the same?

[Belovèse]

I'm on turn 90 as the HRE, really enjoying the mod. One thing I noticed is that the Islamic world has not called a single jihad, compared to the three crusades so far. It seems to be really hurting them as the moors are almost kicked out of Iberia and the crusaders are claiming land in Egypt and pushing farther east. Anyone else noticed the same?

Jihad seem to be less frequent than crusade in my experience also, but not absent.

I even saw the ai be as sneaky as a human player: it took a lot of armies near a city (that I also wanted), then declared it a jihad target and took it before I (also playing an Islamic faction) could benefit from it!

[kostic]

I'm on turn 90 as the HRE, really enjoying the mod. One thing I noticed is that the Islamic world has not called a single jihad, compared to the three crusades so far. It seems to be really hurting them as the moors are almost kicked out of Iberia and the crusaders are claiming land in Egypt and pushing farther east. Anyone else noticed the same?

I also note a tendency for a slight domination of Christian factions over Muslim factions. To be confirmed on more games and more playing time.

[Gigantus]

Jihad requires an imam with a certain level of piety, if that requirement has been increased in descr_campaign_db then it might lead to fewer jihads.
Placing the 'jihad' hidden resource strategically, eg on the Iberian peninsula, will also add some impetus to the target selection.

[j.a.luna]

Jihad requires an imam with a certain level of piety, if that requirement has been increased in descr_campaign_db then it might lead to fewer jihads.
Placing the 'jihad' hidden resource strategically, eg on the Iberian peninsula, will also add some impetus to the target selection.

In my opinion should exist the figure of "Great Imam" at the beginning of the game, should the figure of Great Caliph of Bagdhad but no a family member(only the nominal tittle), a religious figure at the beginning of the game represented in a Imam with full piety and need Baghdad city( similar to Echumenical patriarch figure),also with another strat map model( i commented on this some time ago). With this from the beginning of the game they could be called Jihad for the Muslim factions.
Also when a Iman reaches the maximum of piety should be called "Great Imam" and could have another strat model (I think you can simply add a white beard representing that he is an old person and a different color to his clothes). This is similar to Cardenals of Patriarchs, so i think that is fair add this figure for muslims, also with pagans as Great Shaman.

For other hand, i also noticed that in my campaign muslims are weaker than christians, the moors have lost all of Iberia except Shilb (strong aragoneses), in the year 1182, crusaders are strong in Holy Land with egyptians that only have 4 settlements...
Also the Jihads armies dont attack the Jihad tarjet, also walk around the settlement and never attack...

[Gigantus]

Agreed, an Imam at the game start with 5-6 piety is pretty much a guarantee of a Jihad after the obligatory 20 turns (can also be set in the file I mentioned) are over.

Or simply spawn one for an AI faction at some stage - like a 'Mahdi'.

[a Dictator's Cigar]

Also the Jihads armies dont attack the Jihad tarjet, also walk around the settlement and never attack...

Similar to the Crusade armies in my situation, I pushed the pope to call a crusade on Moorish Valencia and after the Crusader armies arrived to the settlement they just camped there for already 7 turns without attacking the settlement or the nearby Moorish army.