SSHIP - General Discussion

[Jurand of Cracow]

I think I've answered to a similar question already.

[Cleomenes III]

I think I've answered to a similar question already.

I just don't get it. Why have custom textured units and include them in custom battles but not in the campaign? There's even two different units one with axes and the other with swords both with amazing textures.

[Alavaria]

Hungary gets Feudal Knights when everyone else does (at event HEAVY_MAIL_Armor), they also get even later on some other plate wearing knight (Banderium Knights).

I guess the idea is Hungary didn't use the "knight" style of combat until the time of feudal knights?

I wouldn't be surprised if the models etc are from SS or were updated before the unit was otherwise removed from campaign, sometimes there's things useable in custom battle which reflect vanilla and maybe aren't the most historical.

There's even two different units one with axes and the other with swords both with amazing textures.

The uh "Sworded Mailed Foot Knights" and "Axed Mailed Foot Knights" if you mean those, are yeah linked to the Mailed Knight, but even if Hungary doesn't have mounted lance knights, they might have something like foot knights but I don't know about that.

[j.a.luna]

I guess that sship team will improve the hungarian roster, so maybe MWY or Lifth could explain us if exist new roster for them for the new version., maybe should exist some light shock cavalry for poland and hungary as Jurand said...

[Hellvard]

Hey guys, can someone upload sship's campaign script? I'm too lazy to reinstall whole SS and SSHIP

[Jurand of Cracow]

Essential files included, I hope. If you'd meant this - I didn't get deeper than the main folder of the mod. I think it might be easier just to instal SSHIP and mess around yourself (and even play it, of course with my submods, as Poland is more historically treated there)

[DaReaperZ]

Pardon the intrusion, I wasn't sure if my post deserved it's own thread or not so here I go.

I am about at turn 50 with HRE, High/Late campaign Medium/Medium difficulty. I've captured Milan, Olomoc, Praha, Nizze as well as Utrecht from rebels and Loven from France. I have many alliances; Hungary, Bulgaria/Serbia(?), Byzantine Empire, Jerusalem, Georgia, Norway and Léon. I have trade deals with almost the entire map, except for some of the Islamic and Pagan nations. Traded map information with basically everyone.

Right now, I got seemingly randomly excommunicated and attacked by both Pisa and The Papal State. I expected to be at war with them sooner than later as HRE, no big deal. Here's what has me thinking. Ever since I started I've been steadily getting "Relations Worsened" with pretty much the entire continent of Europe, now that I got excommunicated and the Pope declared war on me, every relation suffered. What I don't quite understand is what's causing it. The Pope was indifferent towards me until I joined a Crusade with my Heir and reached the objective, then he was quite happy with me. I also converted a Hungarian region with loads and loads of priests and cardinals. I've captured cities from rebels and the one I got from France was when they were excommunicated themselves. I've only ever had people declare war on me, never declared myself on anyone except the Seljuks in Turkey, but never on a Catholic state. My reputation has also suffered, which might be a reason of the relations getting worse, but again, I don't know why. My reputation is all of the sudden "Very Untrustworthy" despite never breaking any deals, never breaking an alliance, never going to war with anyone that didn't attack me first, I haven't even trespassed except for the Crusading army that was in the captured region for 2 turns. I have ransomed prisoners multiple times and executed them once. It has been steadily declining since my start. Do Merchants lower reputation if they trade resources in nations with no trade agreements?

It's managable, I just feel like I am missing out on a part of the game where I can actually have some diplomacy going on. I don't know if I captured too much too fast or what, is it simply because the HRE are so big and powerful? Anyone know what's up with that?

[Alavaria]

Simply being in a war hits your rep. Doesn't matter how you got in it, that you can't get out of it, that it's not even a real war, just that an AI blockaded a port and then never did anything but reject peace offers. War -> less rep

If everyone gangs up on you, you're in a lot of wars -> a lot less rep

Trigger 0098_Decrease_Global_Standing_When_War
    WhenToTest UpdateAttitude

    Condition DiplomaticStanceFactions = AtWar
        and not TargetFactionType slave

    FactionStanding global normalise -0.6 75

[Hellvard]

Thanks Jurand, but that's not what I wanted I need campaign_script from data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign

[Jurand of Cracow]

Thanks Jurand, but that's not what I wanted I need campaign_script from data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign

Here you go.

[Hellvard]

Thanks a lot

[DaReaperZ]

Simply being in a war hits your rep. Doesn't matter how you got in it, that you can't get out of it, that it's not even a real war, just that an AI blockaded a port and then never did anything but reject peace offers. War -> less rep

If everyone gangs up on you, you're in a lot of wars -> a lot less rep

Trigger 0098_Decrease_Global_Standing_When_War
    WhenToTest UpdateAttitude

    Condition DiplomaticStanceFactions = AtWar
        and not TargetFactionType slave

    FactionStanding global normalise -0.6 75

I see, so basically I shouldn't just passively be at war with a bunch of Pagans and Muslims in vain hopes of increasing relations with Christians. I also found another trigger that basically lowers relations and reputation once you get enough settlements. I think having an alliance with the pope is good so that he's less likely to backstab you and thus excommunicate you. Thanks for the info, I didn't actually know that. Might have to study the faction relations text file. What are the best ways to increase reputation besides letting prisoners go?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Might have to study the faction relations text file. What are the best ways to increase reputation besides letting prisoners go?

If you study the files you may update my notes I made a few years ago for SS 6.4 (I believe they're quite different now in the SSHIP).

• There seems to be a big jump between Reliable and Trustworthy for how effective diplomacy is. With a good reputation allies will readily swap military access.
• High reputation does many good things for you in this game.
• Increase of reputation:
  
  • alliances (0,0025 per alliance per turn)
  • releasing prisoners (0,01), if more than 80 prisoners: (0,035), plus per general (0,025)
  • occupying settlements (0,05)
  • supporting allied or neutral forces in battle (0,10)
  
  
• Lowering reputation:
• Normalisation on h/vh (0,005 per turn)
• Selling / given a settlement and then taking it back (any time in future, even after 100 yers (-1,0)
• Breaking deals:
  
  • Attacking an ally (-0,5)
  • Breaking of trade rights, military access (-0,15)
  • Breaking an alliance (-0,1) (even if it’s a decision of your ally not to wage the war against a faction which attacked you)
  
  
• war (-0,00125 per each faction per turn)
• execution after battle, even if you offered prisoners to be ransomed, but the AI didn’t accept (-0,01), if more than 80 prisoner (-0,035) plus per general (0,025)
• if you let them keep entering your territory a few times before retaliating and taking one of their territories, you are much less likely to take a reputation hit
• if another faction has a BAD reputation, you can attack them freely without losing reputation (In fact you seem to gain reputation for attacking them, as long as you're at war with them and THEY started it). So let them attack you a few times before you retaliate, let their reputation fall and fall and then retaliate.
• the higher your reputation goes, the bigger hit the enemy will take if they attack you
• don't retaliate an attack, only break their forces in your territory
• spies and assassins action don’t impact reputation.

[j.a.luna]

Thats is pretty interesant Jurand, for thisa i said some time ago that someone of sship team should make a thread about ''instructions or guide'' about sship gameplay, the diplomacy and how affect is one of the features that should be including, same for differents role of factions, units, buildings, trade...updated of course and when they have free time

[DaReaperZ]

If you study the files you may update my notes I made a few years ago for SS 6.4 (I believe they're quite different now in the SSHIP).

• There seems to be a big jump between Reliable and Trustworthy for how effective diplomacy is. With a good reputation allies will readily swap military access.
• High reputation does many good things for you in this game.
• Increase of reputation:
  
  • alliances (0,0025 per alliance per turn)
  • releasing prisoners (0,01), if more than 80 prisoners: (0,035), plus per general (0,025)
  • occupying settlements (0,05)
  • supporting allied or neutral forces in battle (0,10)
  
  
• Lowering reputation:
• Normalisation on h/vh (0,005 per turn)
• Selling / given a settlement and then taking it back (any time in future, even after 100 yers (-1,0)
• Breaking deals:
  
  • Attacking an ally (-0,5)
  • Breaking of trade rights, military access (-0,15)
  • Breaking an alliance (-0,1) (even if it’s a decision of your ally not to wage the war against a faction which attacked you)
  
  
• war (-0,00125 per each faction per turn)
• execution after battle, even if you offered prisoners to be ransomed, but the AI didn’t accept (-0,01), if more than 80 prisoner (-0,035) plus per general (0,025)
• if you let them keep entering your territory a few times before retaliating and taking one of their territories, you are much less likely to take a reputation hit
• if another faction has a BAD reputation, you can attack them freely without losing reputation (In fact you seem to gain reputation for attacking them, as long as you're at war with them and THEY started it). So let them attack you a few times before you retaliate, let their reputation fall and fall and then retaliate.
• the higher your reputation goes, the bigger hit the enemy will take if they attack you
• don't retaliate an attack, only break their forces in your territory
• spies and assassins action don’t impact reputation.

Thank you Jurand I'll check it out, see if I can make sense of it!

[Archesel]

In Great Seldjuk roster, the armoured horse archer (from vanilla's Khwarezm roster) is given a total armor value of 14. It appears too low for such and unit: fari and iqta'dar have 15 armor while being more mobile.

I suggest to give this unit an armor value like 17-22, much like monaspa HA or mamluk heavy HA, which belong to the same unit type, "cataphract archers".

[DaReaperZ]

If I am reading this correctly, occupying any settlement causes a significant reputation loss from descr_faction_standing:

Trigger 0103_occupy_settlement_increase_global
WhenToTest OccupySettlement

FactionStanding global -0.15
FactionStanding target_faction normalise -1.0 6
FactionStanding exclude_factions { slave } normalise -0.6 45


It says' increase_global, but the value is negative.

How do I know if something is per turn, or just a one time deal?

Edit: Nevermind, it's called FactionTurnStart. Starting to get some more of this, and apparently occupying even rebel settlements lowers reputation, but not as much(?)

[XXZit]

If I am reading this correctly, occupying any settlement causes a significant reputation loss from descr_faction_standing:

Trigger 0103_occupy_settlement_increase_global
WhenToTest OccupySettlement

FactionStanding global -0.15
FactionStanding target_faction normalise -1.0 6
FactionStanding exclude_factions { slave } normalise -0.6 45


It says' increase_global, but the value is negative.

How do I know if something is per turn, or just a one time deal?

Edit: Nevermind, it's called FactionTurnStart. Starting to get some more of this, and apparently occupying even rebel settlements lowers reputation, but not as much(?)

You are reading it correctly. Occupying a settlement causes a reputation loss. I was complaining about this sometime ago.

To clarify, ANY military action that you initiate, against any faction -including rebels- and whether you are in your lands(defending) or not will cause a reputation hit. This is unfair and unrealistic.
The only way to maintain an OK reputation in SSHIP is to play extremely passive and slow, so that the inevitable reputation loss that you will incur from military conflicts is offset by the small gains you get from releasing enemies, building religious buildings and having allies.

If you want to know exactly how to gain a good global standing search descr_faction_standing for "global" and see which lines have a positive integer. From memory, I think only those things I mention increase it but I might be wrong.

If you care about reputation at all I recommend you to modify the file to your tastes, or use the descr_faction_standing from another mod because playing with the default one you will find that maintaining a good rep is nearly impossible.

[XXZit]

If you study the files you may update my notes I made a few years ago for SS 6.4 (I believe they're quite different now in the SSHIP).

• Increase of reputation:
  
  • alliances (0,0025 per alliance per turn)
  • releasing prisoners (0,01), if more than 80 prisoners: (0,035), plus per general (0,025)
  • occupying settlements (0,05)
  • supporting allied or neutral forces in battle (0,10)
  
  

The last two points, which I highlighted, do not increase your rep in SSHIP but instead lower it. The numbers might or might not be accurate. Most likely they're not; I remember SSHIP's descr_faction_standing having very different numbers last time I looked at it.

[XXZit]

Another interesting point is that offering military assistance against a faction through diplomacy and then delivering on your promise will increase the reputation of the faction to which you offered the help, not your reputation. Similarly, if you request military assistance, if the AI helps you it is your reputation that will increase, not theirs.

This is a bug present in vanilla and all mods I've played and I haven't found a way to fix it. It is probable that the triggers are reversed, causing this behavior.