Remove MOB from Garrisons ? they are usless and destroying the fun.

[Klierowski]

Please ?

[Tenerife_Boy]

I support this initiative. Instead of it, I suggest to create a tree of garrisons types depending on the level of the cities/towns.

This guy once made it, but his mod was mostly elite units for early settlements, but the idea is what counts.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...s-Mod-(Patch5)

So, DeI team please ask him how to do it and give it a chance.

[Meneros]

We're going to revamp the entire garrison system after 0.95.

[szabz]

I disagree. Mobs add some sort of authenticity to early settlement garrisons, imitating how regular citizens would fight for their homeland in a small community. Whereas later in the game, when you are wealthy and developed, mobs disappear as you can afford an army. This mod is supposed to be realistic. If you have a new town, all they will . Mobs aren't completely useless either. I have won battles thanks to the support of mobs.

Slaying mobs is great fun. If you think mobs are destroying the fun, take a look at the AI. No matter how many units and regardless of type, every battle will be repeat of the last, a huge massacre (at least on normal).

[Causeless]

But men wouldn't run outside holding crappy little blunt knifes and fight. They'd at least be given a simple shield by the settlement when levied up, or bring some form of protection for themselves.

As it stands, mobs are worthless. They can't even beat a low-level skirmisher unit in melee. It's literally a disadvantage to have then, as the morale drop from them routing is not worth it.

[TheOrangeProject]

But men wouldn't run outside holding crappy little blunt knifes and fight. They'd at least be given a simple shield by the settlement when levied up, or bring some form of protection for themselves.

As it stands, mobs are worthless. They can't even beat a low-level skirmisher unit in melee. It's literally a disadvantage to have then, as the morale drop from them routing is not worth it.

"when levied up"

There you go.

As soon the settlement lvls up=>no mobs. Problem solved.

Also there is still some us for those units Better a dead citizien due to arrows then the death of a hoplite. Sacrifices have to be made in order to gain victory.

_____


"great reduction of their defense skill to at least triple their death rate"

They already have the lowest stat in the game. Make mob 1v1 against normal meele unit. They die fast enough, otherwise they would not rout that fast. Unless one plays on easy of course.


"Mobs should look dirty, not all be wearing clean white greek robes and daggers."

Why should they look dirty? They are the citizien of the settlement.


Only thing i agree is the look. Some variety in the looks would be nice, but there are way more important units/things in the game/mod which need attention.

[Causeless]

"when levied up"

There you go.

As soon the settlement lvls up=>no mobs. Problem solved.

Also there is still some us for those units Better a dead citizien due to arrows then the death of a hoplite. Sacrifices have to be made in order to gain victory.

_____


"great reduction of their defense skill to at least triple their death rate"

They already have the lowest stat in the game. Make mob 1v1 against normal meele unit. They die fast enough, otherwise they would not rout that fast. Unless one plays on easy of course.


"Mobs should look dirty, not all be wearing clean white greek robes and daggers."

Why should they look dirty? They are the citizien of the settlement.


Only thing i agree is the look. Some variety in the looks would be nice, but there are way more important units/things in the game/mod which need attention.

I didn't say "level", I said "levy".

Levy - To force someone into military or national service by means of conscription

[Essaronn]

I didn't say "level", I said "levy".

Levy - To force someone into military or national service by means of conscription

Which is what he replied to:

You're saying when someone is pressed into service they'll be armed by the state.

He's saying the state doesn't exist in that type of well-funded form until the town levels up.

There are two ways to look at mobs imho:
1. they're the levied soldiers of the city and should be armed
2. they're the excess men AFTER the city has done it's levying (which is represented by the cheaper spearmen) who run out with fish knives to defend their homes.

[krunsh]

They already have the lowest stat in the game. Make mob 1v1 against normal meele unit. They die fast enough, otherwise they would not rout that fast. Unless one plays on easy of course.

I'm not saying they are too strong. As I thought I had clearly written, it's just not immersive at all to zoom in on a bunch of mob and watch them get stabbed repeatedly without dying. Maybe this changed since last time I played, but I doubt it?

Why should they look dirty? They are the citizien of the settlement.

Settlements were dirty place in ancient times, I doubt you would work a field or the market with a white robe. At the moment, they kinda all look like a mob of senators out to shank Caesar 23 times.

And yes, I agree this is not top priority. But if they are gonna be kept they will need some love. Otherwise simply remove them as they generally lower the quality of the mod (In my opinion.).

[Tenerife_Boy]

We're going to revamp the entire garrison system after 0.95

Glad to hear this!

[ABH2]

I think mobs should be reduced and made into brick throwers. A mod currently does it. Either that, or just replace them with levy skirmishers which are basically the same thing. I think that's the most realistic depiction. Roman and Greek towns should get more low level hoplites and Rorarii.

[Slashas]

I mostly use mobs for suicide missions like rolling down flaming hayballs and such, or for getting me a very small amount of time. Usually they never get any kills by themselfs though.

[krunsh]

I think mobs are the worse unit when it comes to exposing the lack of flexibility in how DeI works with Rome 2's shortcomings. They are standing there with daggers and no armor what so ever, getting stabbed in the chest repeatedly and not dying.

I feel like if mobs are going to be in the game, their defense value should be greatly reduces to represent how fast a soldier without armor or weapon would quickly die to a spear wielding hoplite. It's great that they can be use to somewhat slowdown the advance of the enemy, but while I understand the realism aspect of fully armored soldiers with shields having low casualties... mobs should drop like flies and quickly be routed.

I'd suggest the following:
- great reduction of their defense skill to at least triple their death rate (And adjust moral in consequence if that makes them rout too fast due to DeI's balance.).
- Addition of an ''Ability'' that would make other units ignore routing mobs when it comes to moral penalties (I find it is often a bad idea to use mobs to flank the enemy in a close fight... Since they rout and cause my other units to lose moral.).
- Greatly reduce their Auto-Resolve value.
- Another fun thing could be to give them a moral buff for every other mob close by to force the player in using them as a ''mob'' in order to have any form of longevity (See riot police VS rioters.).

Also the stone throwing mod is fun. But I'm not quite sure if there would be any use to it at all. I do not remember what are the penalties for being under fire (Slower movement, accuracy reduction?) that could make them worth it even though their damage output is close to meaningless.

I also find that in addition to making DeI's low kill rate look dumb, the complete lack of variance in unit model makes it a thousand time worse. So if they are going to be used, I hope they get a bit of love on that front. Mobs should look dirty, not all be wearing clean white greek robes and daggers. Give them sticks and sickles and hammers and some darker dirty clothes.

Cheers!

PS: Note that I was in no way dissing DeI here. I find the the low kill rate and over all visual of the mod fit perfectly almost every other units!

[Meneros]

While we haven't yet hammered out the exact details on the Garrison system revamp, the general idea is that we're going to firstly balance them out better (Currently there are some factions that have a lot of garrisons, and some that have very little). Secondly, we're going to be beefing them up to a certain extent, with the intention of making even minor conquests require a certain amount of planning.

[adambomb1]

You need to figure out how to use the MOB, I use them all the time, very useful if you know how to use them. Keep the MOB.

[Ygraine]

Glad to see changes are coming to the garrisons! So tired of these useless mobs. Any unit can do what they do, just better. Even the crappiest levies!

[Darth_Revan]

I am going to have to be honest. I look forward to watching my legionaries massacring mob units during some sieges...

[corsair831]

mob aren't useless at all, against a 20 stack of elite infantry they're useless, but in a pitched battle you can certainly use them to mess with the enemy's archers, throwers etc etc, and they still provide a morale debuff when they attack enemy units in the back (which i've lost units to so many times in MP campaigns)

i can see how they'd be useless in single player however, where the AI just banzai charges every time

[Ygraine]

mob aren't useless at all, against a 20 stack of elite infantry they're useless, but in a pitched battle you can certainly use them to mess with the enemy's archers, throwers etc etc, and they still provide a morale debuff when they attack enemy units in the back (which i've lost units to so many times in MP campaigns)

i can see how they'd be useless in single player however, where the AI just banzai charges every time

But if you replace them with the most basic levy, they'll do far better. I don't see the point in having them at all!

[antred]

i can see how they'd be useless in single player however, where the AI just banzai charges every time

Even in SP mode they have their uses. Not a great many but some. I mostly use them to soak up missile damage that would otherwise mess up more valuable units. Or I might sacrifice them to active a set of fireballs aimed at the approaching enemy columns while the rest of my troops are entrenched in the town center.