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Thread: [Preview] Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

  1. #1

    Icon4 [Preview] Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    If you're new to the Medieval 2 engine:

    - watch eg. this video
    - read this guide

    In the SSHIP many things are different, but you can get the basics of the Med2 engine.


    Settlements and Economy:


    In original SS, settlement growth went pretty fast, every settlement was somewhat the same, and you basically wanted to build everything no matter what. We tried to change that in SSHIP.

    Settlement Growth:
    We slowed the settlement growth factor down significantly. You will mostly start of without any growth at all in your regions. Only England, London and Vienna have a really huge growth factor at the campaign start. Right now, getting your settlement to grow is really something special which doesn't happen often.

    Unique Settlements:
    We looked at historical numbers and adjusted cities and castles accordingly. We have historical population numbers implemented in the game. Constantinople will start of with about 150.000 citizens. The highest population you can achieve is probably around 160.000. With the right governor, it can perhaps get even higher. Public order in those huge cities will be hard to manage, and you have to find an adequate strategy to handle this. On the other hand, we have not so developped towns and villages, especially in scandinavia, cumania or lithuania. Here you don't have to really manage the towns much, and growing them will be a slow but rewarding process. So the variety of settlements and starting positions in SSHIP is bigger than ever.

    Buildings:
    In SSHIP, we wanted to avoid the "build everything everywhere" factor. Most of the buildings have specific positive and negative factors, and you will have to decide if the building is worth it or if you fare better without it. We also have a small techtree. Most advanced buildings require either a stonemason or a carpenter to be build. This way, we try to avoid having too many building possibilites at one time.

    Economy:
    Well, you won't have a bank in SSHIP. Units are more expensive, buildings are aswell. There's siege upkeep, more corruption in large cities, etc. On the bright side, AI stack spam is reduced aswell to somewhat realistic levels. The AI uses it's resources more sustainable and will focus on upgrading settlements when not at war. It almost never goes bankrupt.

    Dynamic Events:


    In SSHIP, we try to avoid stable and repetitive gameplay. Therefore, we try to enhance the game to be more dynamic concerning events.

    Religious Orders:
    - if your global standing is too low, or if you are excommunicated, you won't be able to recruit religious order knights.
    - if there are too many major templar buildings, the templar will strife for power and unleash unrest in your settlements. So keep things in balance.
    - Teutonic Knights are not available in the beginning. When the kingdom of jerusalem gets under pressure (loses specific settlements, shrinks) the teutonic order will be founded. After a while, you will be able to build chapter houses then.

    Crusader Support:
    - Tired of the Crusader States getting crushed? Want to improve your standings with the pope? Here's the perfect solution. The pope will demand you regularly to help the crusaders by spending them additional money.


    Mongol Invasion:


    It always bugged me that the mongols start with a huge amount of stacks, whipe out 3-4 factions and then die off because they have no money to replenish their units or rebuild their settlements. So we tried to make them a bit more constant and economic, while still pretty fearsome.

    - Mongols emerge in around 1250.
    - Other AI factions will bury their old hatred and try to ally against this new overwhelming enemy.
    - they're using a special mongol AI, making them as reckles as they were in reality.
    - Dynamic income script gives them a huge initial impact, they can rebuilt destroyed cities as well as recruit new units, but they will be slowed down over time.
    - Usual mongol empires in test campaign go as far as bordering kievan rus, egypt, rum/byzantium before they start to slow down.



    Settlements, Rebellions, Resistance and Faction Reemergence:


    Resistance:

    - capital regions get an unrest factor of 55%, no matter what, representing the unhappiness of the population being occcupied by foreign lords.
    - core regions get an unrest factor 45%
    - lesser regions get an unrest factor of 25%
    - dynamic unrest factor, depending on the initial conquering starts with an additional 30-50% and gets lower every turn.
    - If a new and incompetent factor leader gets on your throne, be prepared that those occupied regions will try to seize this opportunity.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Rebellions :


    - Be prepared that you perhaps can't control every city in this game. Be aware that if you try and fail, it will have consequences.
    - Once a settlements revolts for 2 turns, the original faction will reemerge with support of the local nobility.
    - This Rebellion won't be peasants only, it will be a serious threat of about 1 or 2 stacks.



    Usurpers, Bastards, Regents and Heros:


    SSHIP uses a new feature (via traits) in the family representing plots and struggle for power in medieval kingdoms. In a family, there can be rightful leaders, plots, usurpers, regents and bastards.

    Rightful Leader/Heir:
    This attribute shows that the character has royal ties and is accepted amongst the nobility as a rightful leader. This is what you want for your family. A rightful heir is safe from the plotting or usurping attribute.


    Plots:
    If a character is unhappy with the leader, he will get the plotting trait. This can be due to serious differences in interest (a very chivalrious general doesn't like an evil leader), or simply due to a faction leader being bad (no command, no authority, etc.). Plotting is the first trait you have to watch out for in your family while playing SSHIP.


    Usurper/Usurping:
    A character gets this trait when he becomes faction heir/faction leader while plotting. Watch out for this trait and try to get rid of a usurping faction heir as soon as possible. If an Usurper becomes King, he will work against your kingdom, civil war will break out and other nobles will resist him for around 5-10 years. Loyalty will suffer extremly as well as movement points amongst those nobles. Your factions income will drop aswell. If an usurper survives this period, he will be accepted as a true king and create his own new dynasty.


    Regent:
    A character without royal ties, being leader or heir. Be careful when you see this trait. A bad or evil general will try to usurp his way through to become the real king. A chivalrious general with this trait can usually be trusted to stay loyal without usurping.


    Bastards:

    Generals which are sons of your faction leader or other royal members. If they are skillfull, they will be accepted by the nobility to be rightful heirs. If not, they can even become usurpers.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; February 13, 2022 at 02:43 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: S.S.H.I.P Economy, Events, Scripts and other Features

    Amazing guys, so much detail and thought you've put into this. And you got around several things stainless steel said was impossible, like re-emergence

  3. #3

    Default Re: S.S.H.I.P Economy, Events, Scripts and other Features

    We can't take credit for all of that- re-emergence was already discovered along with most of what we've done but I like to think the way MWY has put everything together is unique and deserves some plaudits.

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    Have those features already been included or they are work in progress?

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    They are all included in the mod right now.

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    does sship already implemented RC 2.0?

  7. #7

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    If a faction dies it does not comes back right ?

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    A dead faction does come back when a revolt in it's former capital happens.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    You guys have done a great job thank you. Cant wait for the next patch

  10. #10
    doss's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    So does the 55% unrest in capital regions stay the hole game ?

  11. #11

    Default hi

    How many knight orders have represent in this mod I see Templars and Hospitalers ?

  12. #12
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    Here are some numbers from a book called "The Capetians":
    - Fixed incomes from the royal demesn under Louis VII "The Yound" (1120 - 1180): 19,000 Livres per year
    - Total incomes (estimated as there is no evidence) under Louis VII "The Yound" (1120 - 1180): 57,000 Livres per year
    - Fixed incomes from the royal demesn under Philippe II Augustus (1180 - 1223) in 1202-1203 AD : 115,000 Livres per year
    - Fixed incomes from the royal demesn under Philippe II Augustus (1180 - 1223) in 1221 AD : about 200,000 Livres per year
    - Administration cost for Baillis and Provosts: 12% of their incomes (1202-1203 AD).
    - Military cost provided by the Baillis and Provosts: 16% of their incomes (1202-1203 AD).
    Note 1: the rest of the incomes from the Baillis and Provosts was given to the Royal Treasure.
    Note 2: 1 Livre = 1 pound of silver = 20 sous (or sols). 1 sous = 12 deniers.

    - Cost of a knight at the beginnig of the 13th century: 6 sous (or sols) per day
    - Cost of foot sergeant: 8 deniers per day
    - In 1202-1203 AD, cost of the French army at the Normandy's borders (against King John "Lackland"): 27,000 Livres + about 3,290 Livres for mercenaries
    - In 1202-1203 AD, cost for logistic, dead horses replacement, work of fortifications and unknown costs: about 52,710 Livres
    Note 3: these numbers don't take in account the cost of the other French army mobilised at the same period on the Loire river.

    - Estimated reserve of the French Royal Treasure in 1221 AD: 162,000 Livres
    - The king Philippe II Augustus' will consisted in 1222 legacies for a total amount of 790,000 Livres.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  13. #13
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    In addition to the preview post, here are some other interesting (at least from my opinion) numbers.

    During the 7th Crusade, leaded by the King Louis IX, "Saint Louis" (king of France from 1226 to 1270 AD), his army consisted as follow:
    - Scottish and Norvegian mercenaries (exact amount not found).
    - Total army: 25,000 men plus 7,000 to 8,000 horses, divided as follow:
    - between 2,500 and 2,800 knights.
    - 5,000 servants of weapons and riders/grooms (hope the translation is correct).
    - 10,000 infantry men and crossbow men
    - Total cost estimated at 1.5 millions of Livres. 250,000 Livres were paid by the cities and the rest was paid by the Church with a special tax (decime Terre sancte) equal to 10% of its incomes. Note that the debt was entirely paid back within 5 years.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  14. #14

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    Quote Originally Posted by MWY View Post
    Settlements and Economy:


    In original SS, settlement growth went pretty fast, every settlement was somewhat the same, and you basically wanted to build everything no matter what. We tried to change that in SSHIP.

    Settlement Growth:
    We slowed the settlement growth factor down significantly. You will mostly start of without any growth at all in your regions. Only England, London and Vienna have a really huge growth factor at the campaign start. Right now, getting your settlement to grow is really something special which doesn't happen often.

    Unique Settlements:
    We looked at historical numbers and adjusted cities and castles accordingly. We have historical population numbers implemented in the game. Constantinople will start of with about 150.000 citizens. The highest population you can achieve is probably around 160.000. With the right governor, it can perhaps get even higher. Public order in those huge cities will be hard to manage, and you have to find an adequate strategy to handle this. On the other hand, we have not so developped towns and villages, especially in scandinavia, cumania or lithuania. Here you don't have to really manage the towns much, and growing them will be a slow but rewarding process. So the variety of settlements and starting positions in SSHIP is bigger than ever.

    Yeah, I definitely noticed this, playing with Norway and they're so backward. Even the capital is just a town, you could've put at least it as large city, I had to turn all settlements present in-what-it-should-be-the-Scandinavian-peninsula (also here, since it's an historical mod you should've changed the strategic map and make it look like as a peninsula) in cities, otherwise my economy would've been so down. Not to mention how settlements grow slowly, I'm at 60 turn and I managed to bring only Lund to large city, which seems to have a growth factor more rapid. Furthermore, to turn a settlement from city into castle are needed 12 turns? Seriously? How I'm supposed to deal with other factions? Like, what if I want to expand southward, where there is the HRE?

    - Once a settlements revolts for 2 turns, the original faction will reemerge with support of the local nobility.
    Do you mean even if the faction has been defetead?

  15. #15
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    Norway never had an important population during that period. No point to change their capital as large city just because it is their capital. Also, changing a town into castle takes 12 turns because that's how it should be. you can't basically rebuild the whole settlement just in a few months.

    I'm not sure to get your point about the peninsula Can you expand a bit?

    Norway is one of the most (if not the most) difficult faction to play with. You need to get ride of the Danes quickly or they will really become painful. If possible, make an alliance with HRE. If not possible, just keep the Danes on the actual Danish peninsula, using them as a buffer with the HRE. Soon or later HRE will be weakened by several wars and that's when you can take your chance.
    Usually, I don't expand to South but rather to England. The position is pretty good and safe (once you have conquered England and Scotland) and gives good incomes. From there, you can expand where ever you want. Not that it's not easy to achieve.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  16. #16

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    First of all, thanks for having replied, man... about the peninsula I meant that you could've put the whole Scandinavian peninsula, also the top of it, not only the lower part.

    I already got rid of the Danes, I rule now the whole Norway and Denmark, I decided to turn into castle Ribe to face potential attacks from HRE...



    ... and you see those red arrows? You can actually land into Norway without using any ships, just going through the little islands. So, even if I decide to stay in the Danish peninsula and leave Riba to HRE, they could take my cities anyway, I can't even use a naval strategy to keep them away.

  17. #17
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    Well, if we remove the land bridges in Denmark, considering that the AI doesn't use fleet for naval invasion efficiently, that might "ruin" the game play somehow. So basically, you'll end up with Norway and Sweden controlled by Norway or Denmark, that ruling faction probably becoming quite "passive then. All in all, it has to be tested to see how it works.
    Same if we add the land bridges as you showed on the minimap. You won't be able to be strong enough to face an invasion from the main land, especially from the HRE.
    What's why I usually leave Ribe to the Danes and keep a strong garrison in or near to Roskilde
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  18. #18

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    But there are already land bridges, aren't they? Armies can walk through those pieces of land showed in the picture.

  19. #19
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    Yes, there are land bridges between these Danish islands. That's my point about removing them.

    Forget about the other point. I've been mistaken by the red square on the radar map
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  20. #20

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Economy, Events, Scripts & Other Features

    It's almost impossible to go on like this, I put every single settlement on low tax rate to get the maximum growth, at the beginning it was 1.5/2, now it went down at 0.5, it'll take ages to improve my cities. I moved the capital from the original Bergvin to Skara, more at the center of my modest empire, it seems it's going better now. What else can I do? I've built all buildings available, I'm only waiting for the population to reach the required number, I can't believe they grow up sooo slowly.

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