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Thread: [Preview] Campaign Map

  1. #61
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Well, if we start to re-work the province names, the team will need to discuss on how to do it
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  2. #62
    REDrake's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    I am new to modding in SS, but on Sicilian Vespers and on my modding days of Regions and Provinces we used a script allowing the names of settlements to change depending on who owned it. It was thus possible to allow Constantinopolis to change its name to Istanbul when conquered by turks, as an example. But for don't fall into the trap of using letters like â or ì. The game cannot read those and moving the cursor over the settlement causes crashes.

    Point taken about Athens, even though from that paper it looks like Athens had its ups and downs, flourishing around 9th-12th centuries and then dropping down again for the next 200 years. I still think Thessaloniki is way too bigger as on the map it looks like the whole Greece is centered on it. Splitting it in 2 might be a good idea, especially if someone plans on designing future campaigns placed in other time periods (like the Dark Ages of Sicilian Vespers, 980AD).

  3. #63
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Don't forget the limits of regions which is 200 (sea included). That means if you had add a region there, you need to remove another one from somewhere else on the map.
    Regarding Constantinople renamed as Istanbul, that was due to the conquest by the Ottomans. We don't have them in game. So not sure it would be realistic to rename it that way
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; April 10, 2017 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Typo
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Don't forget the limits of regions which is 200 (sea included). That means if you had a region there, you need to remove another one from somewhere else on the map.
    Regarding Constantinople renamed as Istanbul, that was due to the conquest by the Ottomans. We don't have them in game. So not sure it would be realistic to rename it that way
    I know about the regions limit. That's always the issue on these kind of modifications. My suggestion went more along the lines of splitting that large regions between the other ones (Constantinopolis, Korinth, Naupaktos and the lefover to remain as Thessaloniki).

    As for Constantinopolis -> Instanbul it was just an example. There were more of these scripts, which I can dig them out when I get home. It should solve discussions about how to name the cities after who owned them. The beauty of that script is that if turks for example capture the city it get renamed in the next turn. If the byzantines take it back the next turn, the turn after that, the city reverts back to the greek version. AFAIK there were no CTDs because of it either. Obviously, what I foresee to be the biggest issue is going to be to pick how it behaves when it moves to the rebels and in SSHIP, city do rebel a lot.

  5. #65
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Quote Originally Posted by REDrake View Post
    don't fall into the trap of using letters like â or ì.
    Do you have the list of the letters which do not cause crashes? Actually, I though that all ASCII characters would not. For instance, I thought that ì wouldn't make problems. See here.
    Quote Originally Posted by REDrake View Post
    whole Greece is centered on it. Splitting it in 2 might be a good idea, especially if someone plans on designing future campaigns placed in other time periods (like the Dark Ages of Sicilian Vespers, 980AD).
    I don't think it's a good idea to make any changes in the provinces locations, borders etc. There had been a lot of good work in the past (I'm not aware of, actually, but I see the results) and any change should be now well though out. I think only changes in the names of provinces or settlments should come to a discussion - they're easy to implement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Well, if we start to re-work the province names, the team will need to discuss on how to do it
    Yes, it's why I asked about the rules. If we would start this re-work, we would need to have the rules. We can still gather information - and I'm doing it here or here.

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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    @ REDrake, just note that we try to keep the script as "light" as possible in order to keep AI turn duration as short as possible. So such a script implementation will be considered with these parameters as well. Also, as mentioned by JoC, no region change planned for now.

    @ JoC, I'm continuing this discussion in "our" place
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; April 10, 2017 at 12:34 PM.
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Do you have the list of the letters which do not cause crashes? Actually, I though that all ASCII characters would not. For instance, I thought that ì wouldn't make problems. See here.
    I don't know for certain the whole list of letter that might cause issues. I do know for a fact that any letters that have characters below the letter cause issues. Letter like ç or ș are definitely to be avoided.

    As for the rename script, I dug out the one used for Sicilian Vespers. It looks like this:
    ;--------Adrianople----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType slave

    if I_SettlementOwner Adrianople = sicily
    change_settlement_name Adrianople Adrianopoli
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Adrianople = venice
    change_settlement_name Adrianople Adrianopoli
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Adrianople = milan
    change_settlement_name Adrianople Adrianopoli
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Adrianople = papal_states
    change_settlement_name Adrianople Adrianopoli
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Adrianople = antioch
    change_settlement_name Adrianople Adrianople
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Adrianople = jerusalem
    change_settlement_name Adrianople Adrianople
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Adrianople = turks
    change_settlement_name Adrianople Edirne
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Adrianople = byzantium
    change_settlement_name Adrianople Hadrianoupolis
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    end_monitor
    I leave it to you if you consider it worthwhile including or not.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Thanks Mate
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  9. #69
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Quote Originally Posted by REDrake View Post
    I don't know for certain the whole list of letter that might cause issues. I do know for a fact that any letters that have characters below the letter cause issues. Letter like ç or ș are definitely to be avoided.
    Well, I think we need such a list. if anyone comes across it, please post it in this thread (actually, I think it exists somewhere since in every mod one would ask such a question. EBII? TATW? HiMA? DIK?
    For instance, in Polish letter ó seems to work, while ł doesn't (I suppose).

    Quote Originally Posted by REDrake View Post
    As for the rename script, I dug out the one used for Sicilian Vespers. It looks like this:
    Two short questions:
    - does the code mean that the change of the settlement name would happen every turn? what would happen if the player changes the name by himself?
    - is it possible to change province names in a similar fashion, or it's only limited to the settlements' names?

    The number of required monitors would indeed be high - 199 settlments x 29 factions... I don't think it's worth the time. Or maybe for a very limited number of settlements (well, Adrianople should indeed change name if taken by the Turks...). Anyway - as the goal of SSHIP is to be historical, we would need to gather the necessary information first.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    As promise, here is the next preview of the map adjustment for the next release: the Nile delta:

    Current version:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Next release:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    This should be more reflective to the 12th century reality. Note that the metal resource in South West of Cairo has been moved slightly to the South and is now accessible for merchants

    Next change: Persia
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  11. #71

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Great! Its good that you plan to change Iran! Good luck

  12. #72
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    There won't be a major overhaul but rather an adjustment based on what has been posted in here
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  13. #73

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Thats good enough. As that is exatly what need to be done regarding Iran. Anyway, I have one more question. Have you considered changing Merv with some other city, like Kermanshash or anything... I think Merv is possitioned offmap, it should not be on current SSHIP map, as it is placed more east.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    The question has been raised and answered in the thread I've linked in my previous post. For now, the answer is "no settlement change planned" and "definitively no for Kermansha".
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  15. #75

    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Yes, Merv in reality would be slightly offmap, but it still was such a huge and important city (literally one of the biggest cities at that time) that I think it has it's place in the game.

  16. #76
    REDrake's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Two short questions:
    - does the code mean that the change of the settlement name would happen every turn? what would happen if the player changes the name by himself?
    - is it possible to change province names in a similar fashion, or it's only limited to the settlements' names?

    The number of required monitors would indeed be high - 199 settlments x 29 factions... I don't think it's worth the time. Or maybe for a very limited number of settlements (well, Adrianople should indeed change name if taken by the Turks...). Anyway - as the goal of SSHIP is to be historical, we would need to gather the necessary information first.
    AFAIK, it changes in accordance with the owner, not if the player renames the city himself. Also, I don't think it is possible to change name of the region as well. That would mean a script that modifies descr_regions every time a province changes hands. That is usually reflected with the title ancillary. Like Duke of Alexandria v Caliph of al-Iskandariyya.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Posts about Persia moved to this thread (page 3) for discussion and until we reach "an agreement" . I keep this thread for final previews
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  18. #78
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Below, the correction for the river near Sinope in Turkey:


    As you can see, it goes up on the mountains.

    Now, the corrected version:
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  19. #79
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Hi Liftht,
    I've got a request to have a look at three maps of the Armenian Highlands (SSHIP, EBII, and Barrington Atlas) and perhaps to change the course of the rivers here.
    I think that:
    - Tigris should be shortened a bit - it should start in the first hills,
    - Euphrates should be shortened and start somehow at Qualikala (Theodosiopolis) (or probably even later, look at EBII), since further upstream it was a smaller river, easy to cross
    - Araxes should be added as it is in the EBII - it's been an important river
    - one may think about adding two fields with the Arsanias river, I think. But I'm not 100% sure, let's think about gameplay (so that we don't create completely dead-end parts of the map.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; June 17, 2017 at 01:03 PM.
    Mod leader of the SSHIP: traits, ancillaries, scripts, buildings, geography, economy.
    ..............................................................................................................................................................................
    If you want to play a historical mod in the medieval setting the best are:
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    Recently, Tsardoms and TGC look also very good. Read my opinions on the other mods here.
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    Default Re: [Preview] SSHIP - Campaign Map

    Will have a look at it and will let you know
    Thanks for the map, very useful.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

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