Possible Revival Discussion

[Lucius Malfoy]

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Alright people, I plan to revive Swords of India as Swords of the East with settings now being able to include what we know as the Eastern World (India, Middle East, Asia, etc etc). This will broaden what can the settings can be not only in the historical timeline but where.

Now I will have to do a tweaking of the ruleset for it to adapt to my vision. I am open to suggestions as well as ideas for new settings. I have considered something Chinese, Middle Eastern, Mongolian or Japanese.

[Nesimî]

What timeframes do you have in mind? And in the mongol scenario, what exactly would we do?

[Lucius Malfoy]

What timeframes do you have in mind? And in the mongol scenario, what exactly would we do?

I am still considering time frames.

As for Mongol scenario, I am considering when Timurlane begins his rise to power. When the Mongol empires are nothing but the past, despite their continued existence everywhere. A charismatic leader is chosen and the people rally around him. This leader may seek to conquer India, Persia, go north towards Russia or move East towards the Mongolian homeland.

[Xion]

I'm going to venture a guess a potential option for the Chinese scenario will be the Warring States period, and as for a Japanese scenario, perhaps the Gempei War or the Nanboku-chō Period?

[Ace_General]

I'm going to venture a guess a potential option for the Chinese scenario will be the Warring States period, and as for a Japanese scenario, perhaps the Gempei War or the Nanboku-chō Period?

A Chinese Scenario during the fall of the Ming Dynasty/Manchu invasion would be really really cool. Lots of contenders to the throne and invasions and rebellions going on.

Also, perhaps the rise of the Ming/when the chinese kicked the mongols out would be cool too.

[Lucius Malfoy]

I'm going to venture a guess a potential option for the Chinese scenario will be the Warring States period, and as for a Japanese scenario, perhaps the Gempei War or the Nanboku-chō Period?

You hit the dot on those guesses.

[Ace_General]

If we expand far enough west, like the Broken Crescent area, I want Byzantium, or the Crusader states. Or the Golden Horde. But I would like to play a Christian, preferably Orthodox power.

I would personally like to make the game a little further to the west and have it set during the late Crusader era when the Turkic Invasion/migration of the middle east was in full swing, the Ghurid state was collapsing, the Kommenian Revival of Byzantium was happening, and on the eve of the Mongol inavsions.

Sorta take the usual Crusader setting, and expand it to the greater context of Eurasia at the time. Also, I feel it would be a bit less of an obscure setting and would attract alot of people. I mean, you have the Fatamids, Crusaders, Armenia, Byzantium, the Sultanate of Rum, the Seljiuk empire, the Mongols, the Rus, the Ghurids, Khazarmid, and Bulgars

[Lucius Malfoy]

This isn't gonna be like an alliance game though, Ace. Its gonna be like what SoI was. We choose an area (Asia, Middle East, India, etc etc) and go from there. We may have a bunch of competing and roleplaying states. Perhaps we are under one charismatic leader who seeks to carve out a new kingdom.

This is not a place for Crusader era rps though, Ace. That would have to be for my Deus Vult settings if I plan to bring it back. This revival, Swords of the East, will not be as West as you hope for. I plan for the farthest West to be Persia. But that will have to depend on what I plan for this revival, if it ever happens.

[Dirty Chai]

Nomads and a chaotic China. That is all.

Or just do China with those rules we talked abut extensively in the past.
Those had some nice potential.

[Lucius Malfoy]

Nomads and a chaotic China. That is all.

I am definitely leaning towards Far East (Mongolia, China, Korea and Japan). Try to see if it can work.

Whether it is a historical or fictional warring states period, I must make it work.

[Dirty Chai]

We had rules, LM.
Use them.
They can be great.

A game that carries over its previous history in continuity in an endless dynastic cycle that separates from history at start is great.

[Ace_General]

We had rules, LM.
Use them.
They can be great.

A game that carries over its previous history in continuity in an endless dynastic cycle that separates from history at start is great.

Lol like a Chinese/East Asian GSTK.

Personally, I would either like to start the game set centered on China(but including the vicinity like Manchuria/Mongolia/Taiwan/Central Asia/Tibet) either at the start of the Romance of the three kingdoms Period, or the beginning of the end of the Tang Dynasty with the An Lushan Rebellionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion

The Problem with China is if you go much later, the nobility has essentially been militarized and turned into a service aristocracy, and its more about compition for the central state Apparatus then your god old fashioned Feudal Power struggles.

How about to start off, we are in the late Tang Dynasyt(which was a large, cosmopolitan Feudal empire) and I can play as a turkic General that leads a revolt that causes the empire to facture. Also, what is cool about this period is various neighboring peoples can adopt Chinese customs and governance and attempt to claim the throne, like the Manchus, Jin Dynasty, and Western Xia(who were partially Chinese, Turkic, Mongolian, and also other minorities).

So, to make this happen, late Tang dynasty. A powerful General revolts. The players roll for lands and titles and/or troops. Then the players have to poltick and either declare for the Emperor or the rebel, or declare independence or form their own bloc and try to claim the mandate of Heaven. Also, like SOI we can have characters outside the empire

And then we can go from there.

[Ace_General]

Im down for China, and if we do a post Tang dynasty game, I want to play the Jurchens/Jin/Manchu people

[Dirty Chai]

We all want things, Ace, but do we get them?

[Ace_General]

And can someone link these previously talked about rules?

[Lucius Malfoy]

The setting in mind shall be the Warring States with the usage of the dynastic cycle as an in game mechanic. The dynastic cycle mechanic would be that, if things get dull and boring, we can easily timeskip ahead to a weakened Emperor with a realm ripe of civil war or perhaps after the dynasty's fall and the rise of regional warlords again. This will ensure a continuity within the timeline and history of the game.

People make create their own states and seek to unite China. While, at the same time, people may play nomads beyond the realm's scope. Proto-Mongols and Manchurians who have the chance, if powerful enough, to establish foreign dynasties within China. People may play not only the Chinese but also those nomads around them. However, depending upon the era, be aware that outsiders, such as proto-Mongols and Manchurians, won't be accepted into the realm easily unless they are the ruling nobility by conquest. Most of the time, nomads are nothing but auxiliary troops or low-ranked commanders. As time goes on though, certain cultures will become more accepted and gain higher positions (such as Muslims, Mongols and Chinese being accepted under the Yuan Dynasty compared to the Han where native Chinese had the advantages; those of mixed or foreign blood were kept on the lower stratus of civilization as farmers, military colonists, and auxiliaries).

The dynastic cycle shall ensure continuation and an easy means to continue the roleplay without having the pain staking task of doing an overhaul and full restart. With the allowance of Chinese and Nomads, we give flexibility to choices as well as the chance of foreign dynasties being established. With the coming and passing of dynasties, we ensure dynamics.

Rules will be examined and shown within due time.

[Dirty Chai]

You also get to carry over previous 'cycle' things sometimes if you're playing the same family, as long as it is plausible.
How this works is determined at each and every skip if at all.
All the history is ours to make, and it stays intact from cycle to cycle.

The military rules are inspired by the Romance of the Three Kingdoms game series made by Koei.
A rock-paper-scissors feel is how we modeled it, IIRC.

[Lucius Malfoy]

You also get to carry over previous 'cycle' things sometimes if you're playing the same family, as long as it is plausible.
How this works is determined at each and every skip if at all.
All the history is ours to make, and it stays intact from cycle to cycle.

The military rules are inspired by the Romance of the Three Kingdoms game series made by Koei.
A rock-paper-scissors feel is how we modeled it, IIRC.

Precisely. In many occasions, after the fall of dynasties, we see the rise of distant branches establishing a Later state. Such as a Liu establishing a Later Han dynasty after the fall of the Tang. And a member of the Li clan (who were the ruling members of the Tang) establishing a Later Tang state.

Be warned though, if you fail in plots, depending upon the magnitude of them, the Emperor and those superior in rank to the plotter have the right to exterminate whole clans in order to punish them for their deeds. Dong Zhou exterminated the entirety of the Yuan clan in Luoyang due to them being related to Yuan Shao, his principle enemy. So be wary of your plots and be cautious about them.

I am not sure if this will be added. But if it is, be very very wary of what you plan.

[Ace_General]

I think me and LM are in agreement here. But I will argue that it depends on the policy dynasty and the characters knowledge of Chinese culture on how not having Chinese blood will effect a character.

For example, most of the military of the Tang Dynasty was of foreign origin, and many if it's generals Turks or Muslims, while almost no foreigners where in the Ming army.

Also, like mentioned before, loyalty to the throne and adoption of Confucian customs and Chinese culture could almost entirely make up for being of foreign bloode, especially on the frontier and military contexts

[Ace_General]

Also can we get a start date and is the military system going to be feudal, or professional, or a mix of the two?