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  1. #1
    LexLuthor's Avatar Civis
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    Icon1 Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Hope this isn't a repost.

    For those unaware, the US recently made a swap with the Taliban for prisoner of war Sergeant Bergdahl. The implications from this right away could be either good or bad from first glance; we returned a soldier home but we negotiated with terrorist.

    Now, let's get into the details.

    Sgt Bergdahl went to Afghanistan in 2009, from accounts of his fellow soldiers he was anti American in some situations and finally jumped ship and left. He emailed his parents saying how he was disgusted with American and was sick of it's behavior, following that he left all of his gear by his bunk and went AWOL. He was captured, and held until just recently. How did we return him home? We let the Taliban choose five members that we were holding (again they chose, not us [and we're still negotiating with terrorist]), and we released them from Guantanamo bay.

    Not only did we as the US break one of our biggest rules of national security for this trade, but we didn't even get a good deal. We gave five high ranking Taliban officials for a soldier who hates his country and abandoned it. Not only that, but it was agreed by congress that the president would notify them at least 30 days prior to making such trades, this he did not do.

    I am a United states Marine who joined in 2008 and served in Afghanistan in 2011. I saw war to a large extent shooting field artillery and doing convoy operations. We Marines have an internal policy of never surrendering, but we also have a huge policy for never leaving a Marine behind. Now I've never met an Anti American Marine; stupid ones, but not anti American. If I did however, I would not feel bad for him if he bad talked our nation and went and got himself captured because he decided to run.

    Please someone argue this with me to include some common sense, I am more than convinced that this soldier needs to stand trial for desertion and possibly being a traitor (depending on what he told the Taliban). I am also convinced the white house has some serious explaining to do.

    Links to sources.

    Fox: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...ap-not-option/
    CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/ber...t=hp_inthenews
    NBC: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bow...r-swap-n120596

    - Lex



    Edited for links
    Last edited by LexLuthor; June 02, 2014 at 09:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    That is interesting, but you're going to have to source all of your claims.



  3. #3
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by ☩Lord Inquisitor Derpy Hooves☩ View Post
    That is interesting, but you're going to have to source all of your claims.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/ber...erter-or-hero/
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  4. #4
    LexLuthor's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Added news links for sources.

    What I forgot to add as well, sources say between 5 or 6 soldiers were killed looking for him.

  5. #5
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by LexLuthor View Post
    we negotiated with terrorist.
    What is the issue here? It is not first time nor would it be the last that US negotiate with "terrorist". Current political criticism from Republicans is that President Obama did not follow process what laws require him to do, and Obama is not denying that he broke the laws.
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    Sir Winston Churchill's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Wait, we gave them five Taliban members for this guy? Didn't five soldiers die looking for him? Yeah, that does sound like a pretty raw deal.

    From what I've been reading from other people this guy would do well to turn the around and seek asylum in Europe or something, because he has little to no friends here.

    I'm pretty freaking Liberal, but if you're "un-American" you shouldn't be in the military. I understand maybe not being behind a certain conflict, but that's what conscientious objector status is for. At the very least say something and I'm sure your CO won't want your ass around either and transfer you to a logistics unit.
    Last edited by Sir Winston Churchill; June 03, 2014 at 01:01 AM.

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  7. #7
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Well, aside from people in the US pointing out that this is literally negotiating with terrorists, Afghan President Hamid Karzai is not too happy about this either. Come to think of it, he's usually unhappy with what the US does in Afghanistan.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Even Thatcher negotiated with terrorists.

    On the face of it, he doesn't seem worth the effort, and probably not the ransom. However, Obama or his team seem set on trying to tie up loose ends in Afghanistan.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  9. #9
    Karnil Vark Khaitan's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    I just wonder if he will keep being anti merica after all this?

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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by VarrKhaitan View Post
    I just wonder if he will keep being anti merica after all this?
    Likely as he is now a bit famous and not in a good way.

    I could understand some of his sentiments if he was in one of those detachments that wiped out whole villages for sport, just as I would understand the sentiments of a paraplegic who has trouble believing in a benevolent all-creator.

    Feces happens.

  11. #11
    Dr Zoidberg's Avatar A Medical Corporation
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    The five guys who got released in the exchange will re-circulate into the system and next time, instead being captured, they'll hopefully end up meeting the business end of a Hellfire missile...
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

  12. #12
    Ciciro's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg View Post
    The five guys who got released in the exchange will re-circulate into the system and next time, instead being captured, they'll hopefully end up meeting the business end of a Hellfire missile...
    Especially if there was more of a reason to their release then just the trade.... coughcoughtrackingdevicescoughcough

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciciro View Post
    Especially if there was more of a reason to their release then just the trade.... coughcoughtrackingdevicescoughcough
    I agree here. The administration really does not want the endless prison in Cuba and it has a population it cannot really dispose of easily to anywhere or charge with anything and dump in Federal prison. Leting tham go to where we drone stuff might just be the best option seeing as drone strike are hardly news anymore - well best from the admistration perspective not some for the receiving end.

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  14. #14
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    silly america, who knows what these Taliban will do now
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

  15. #15
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    silly america, who knows what these Taliban will do now
    Sit in Qatar for a year and then maybe, one day reintegrate themselves back into Taliban leadership in Pakistan where they will kill more fellow Muslims. However they will be under intense surveillance and will certainly be high on everyone's hit list if they pop their heads up in the wrong places.


    He was a POW. Every country does this - even Israel.

    He was also a goofy kid who served in a unit that suffered a complete collapse in discipline. They are renowned for their baggery. So for those retired/former members of that unit to criticize this guy so openly, when they had also went full-on-retard, is kind of stupid. And none of the KIA from that unit were involved in direct operations to rescue, or really even search for him. They were on routine patrols and were instructed to look for any sign of him.


    1) Bowe grew up near Hailey, Idaho, the son of California expats and ski bums Jani and Bob Bergdahl, who lived "nearly off the grid" on 40 acres, home-schooling Bowe and his sister Sky in a demanding curriculum:
    Devout Calvinists, they taught the children for six hours a day, instructing them in religious thinkers such as Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine. "Ethics and morality would be constant verbiage in our conversations," his father recalls. "Bowe was definitely instilled with truth. He was very philosophical about perceiving ethics."

    3) Seeking adventure, instead, in American uniform, Bergdahl enlisted in the Army in 2008. His intensity alienated fellow soldiers. A friend from his unit, Jason Fry, recalled Bowe's fierce independence and his prophetic warning:
    "He wanted to be a mercenary, wanted to be a free gun," says Fry. "He had a notion he was a survivalist, claimed he knew how to survive with nothing because he grew up in Idaho…. Before we deployed… him and I were talking about what it would be like," Fry recalls. Bowe looked at his friend and made no bones about his plans. "If this deployment is lame," Bowe said, "I'm just going to walk off into the mountains of Pakistan."

    4) Bergdahl's unit in Afghanistan — part of the Obama surge — was beset by deficits of leadership, "a collapse in unit morale and an almost complete breakdown of authority."
    The unruly situation was captured by … a British documentary filmmaker [whose] footage shows a bunch of soldiers who no longer give a : breaking even the most basic rules of combat, like wearing baseball caps on patrol instead of helmets.

    6) After receiving an email from his father exhorting him to "OBEY YOUR CONSCIENCE," Bowe slipped out of his unit's barracks on June 30th, 2009. One man versus the wilds of Afghanistan, Bergdahl was equipped with just a knife, water, a digital camera and his diary. Barely 24 hours later, he'd be taken prisoner. Bergdahl's capture is recorded in radio intercepts later released by WikiLeaks:
    "WHAT HAPPENED. IS THAT TRUE THAT THEY CAPTURED AN AMERICAN GUY?"
    "YES THEY DID. HE IS ALIVE."

    7) Bergdahl could have been freed in a prisoner exchange almost immediately, but the American officer in charge did not pull the trigger on a prisoner swap:
    Tribal elders from the nearby village...had been asked by the Taliban to arrange a trade with U.S. forces. The insurgents wanted 15 of their jailed fighters released, along with an unidentified sum of money, in exchange for Bowe. The officer hedged, unwilling or unable to make such a bargain, and no deal was struck.

    9) At one point during his captivity, Bergdahl escaped:
    For his part, Bowe does not appear to be a willing hostage. [In] August or September [of 2011], he reportedly managed to escape. When he was recaptured, he put up such a struggle that it took five militants to overpower him. "He fought like a boxer," [said] a Taliban fighter who had seen Bowe.

    10) Negotiations to bring Bergdahl home have been in the works for years — with Obama originally imagining the prisoner swap as an election-year overture toward a durable peace with the Taliban.
    President Obama [has] announced that the United States will now pursue "a negotiated peace" with the Taliban. That peace is likely to include a prisoner swap – or a "confidence-building measure," as U.S. officials working on the negotiations call it – that could finally end the longest war in America's history. Bowe is the one prisoner the Taliban have to trade. "It could be a huge win if Obama could bring him home," says a senior administration official familiar with the negotiations. "Especially in an election year, if it's handled properly."

    11) But the swap didn't have the backing of then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton or Pentagon chief Leon Panetta, who weren't ready to negotiate an end to the war, preferring the bloody path of counterinsurgency operations.
    ...Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, are very wary about making a swap for Bowe. "Panetta and Hillary don't give a about getting him home," says one senior U.S. official involved in the negotiations. "They want to be able to say they COINed their way out of Afghanistan, or whatever, so it doesn't look like they are cutting and running."

    12) The negotiations were also impeded by Senator John McCain, who was typically level-headed in this exchange with future Secretary of State John Kerry.
    McCain, who endured almost six years of captivity as a prisoner of war, threw a fit at the prospect of releasing five Taliban detainees.

    "They're the five biggest murderers in world history!" McCain fumed.


    Kerry, who supported the transfer, thought that was going a bit far. "John," he said, "the five biggest murderers in the world?"


    McCain was furious at the rebuke. "They killed Americans!" he responded. "I suppose Senator Kerry is OK with that?"
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...gdahl-20140602
    Last edited by mrmouth; June 03, 2014 at 06:16 PM.
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  16. #16
    LexLuthor's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmouth View Post
    Sit in Qatar for a year and then maybe, one day reintegrate themselves back into Taliban leadership in Pakistan where they will kill more fellow Muslims. However they will be under intense surveillance and will certainly be high on everyone's hit list if they pop their heads up in the wrong places.


    He was a POW. Every country does this - even Israel.

    He was also a goofy kid who served in a unit that suffered a complete collapse in discipline. They are renowned for their baggery. So for those retired/former members of that unit to criticize this guy so openly, when they had also went full-on-retard, is kind of stupid. And none of the KIA from that unit were involved in direct operations to rescue, or really even search for him. They were on routine patrols and were instructed to look for any sign of him.


    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...gdahl-20140602

    I find that article very biased, and seeing it's from the rolling stones who generally follow a very liberal point of view, confirms it.

    Who was it exactly that claimed the unit was in such shambles and he was the only righteous soldier? Who was it that went out and interviewed the Taliban member that apparently fought with him and claimed he was a UFC champion who required five to bring him down? It's absolutely ridiculous.

    mrmouth are you trying to argue that he had every right to abandon his post because he found that his fellow soldiers were not up to par with his standards?

  17. #17
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by LexLuthor View Post
    I find that article very biased, and seeing it's from the rolling stones who generally follow a very liberal point of view, confirms it.

    Who was it exactly that claimed the unit was in such shambles and he was the only righteous soldier? Who was it that went out and interviewed the Taliban member that apparently fought with him and claimed he was a UFC champion who required five to bring him down? It's absolutely ridiculous.

    mrmouth are you trying to argue that he had every right to abandon his post because he found that his fellow soldiers were not up to par with his standards?

    Yeah, it's rolling bone. It's also accurate.

    Anyone who followed the last 10+ years of deployments has unfortunately heard of the two problematic Army units from the PacNW. So for those people to come out and act righteous, is ridiculous.

    Again, these soldiers that died were killed on patrols. They were not on rescue or search missions, as suggested in all the filed KIA/DOW reports that have been made public. So it would strongly appear that he only correlation between his gone missing and their deaths is that they died after he went missing and that a handful of people he served with have a serious issue with him walking off. Aside from leaving the gate without your rifle, had he made it back or had this not become a thing, then even that would be down on the list of unfortunate incidents that surrounded his unit.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
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  18. #18
    LexLuthor's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmouth View Post
    Yeah, it's rolling bone. It's also accurate.
    Yeah, and that is still opinion. Not fact.

    Listen, if the man had people defending him, someone other than his parents, I would take it into perspective. However everybody who has served with him, and now the count is over 10 correlating testimonies I believe, have stated his intent and actions following. There is nothing but crystal clear evidence pointing towards the inner thinking's of the one in question, and I won't let Rolling Stones (who would try to defend president Obama openly devouring a newborn child) convince me over the mountain of evidence against him.

    I can't come to understand why so many are trying to play devils advocate for this man, hell I am a combat veteran myself and I am just disgusted that so many in Washington are not only calling him innocent but a Hero! Serving in the military does not make you a hero, desertion does however cause question for your obligation as a man to fulfill the duty dedicated your enlistment to. He shouldn't have been a soldier (his lack of following orders is the worst kind), he should have been a humanitarian activist.

    - Lex

  19. #19

    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmouth View Post
    Yeah, it's rolling bone. It's also accurate.

    Anyone who followed the last 10+ years of deployments has unfortunately heard of the two problematic Army units from the PacNW. So for those people to come out and act righteous, is ridiculous.

    Again, these soldiers that died were killed on patrols. They were not on rescue or search missions, as suggested in all the filed KIA/DOW reports that have been made public. So it would strongly appear that he only correlation between his gone missing and their deaths is that they died after he went missing and that a handful of people he served with have a serious issue with him walking off. Aside from leaving the gate without your rifle, had he made it back or had this not become a thing, then even that would be down on the list of unfortunate incidents that surrounded his unit.
    Really Ive always heard good things about 25th (the unit he was in). Besides having leadership doesnt excuse your actions. Nor does that make what his platoon mates saying untrue. My 1st units chain of command was viewed as problematic, hell NATO didnt even want our Battalion Commander anywhere near them because he was so stupid. So does that mean since our chain of command was viewed as terrible that all of us soldiers were? (all 500 of us?) No it doesnt.
    Also heres another viewpoint this one from a SF soldier who helped looked for him at first. http://www.oafnation.com/guests-piec...t-bowe-bagdahl (granted you can make the argument that anybody could of written this article. But alot of vet groups, vets, and SF vets support this page so I personally believe the article).
    Any Veterans of the Afghanistan/Iraq wars join my group. Im trying to get a Veterans group started on here.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Sergeant Bergdahl Released for 5 Taliban members

    how did he 'desert', maybe he just went UNODIR and got kidnapped by taliban.

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