Walled minor settlements - Pictures added of Syracuse

[ABH2]

I've been digging around recently through past mods on the subject as well as experimenting on my own. It's not really 'news,' but it is entirely possible to have minor settlements that are walled. A lot of people don't seem aware of that. I'm thinking about releasing a submod for DeI where people could try this out if they are interested.

There are drawbacks. These aren't unique battle map you'll be playing on and they can't be used everywhere. Syracuse could have a walled port, however, and the provincial capital building line along with Brundisium. It just uses Brundisium's battle map.

See, right now the game will read this so that every settlement in a province will be assigned the provincial capital's battle map. If you have a landlocked settlement and a landlocked capital in a province, you can assign other areas in the province the same building/battle map relatively easily. It wouldn't even require editing the startpos (though, that may be preferable).

So, to put it succinctly with two examples:
-Jerusalem would have Petra's battle map.
-Syracuse would have Brundisium's battle map.

This could be done at least for selective regions until more tools are released or some better solution is found to this (if it exists, I have my doubts we can do it at this time with the current tools).

Some would be a little ridiculous. Any region in Italia would have Rome's battle map, and for some reason the game designs it on the highest level possible (Coliseum and all).

Other people have done it, and I've contacted at least one of them to see what they were doing. It sounded like they had the same issue, however. The walls also wouldn't appear on the campaign map, though that may also prevent the size of cities on the map from expanding to ridiculous levels as they currently do.

I figure that it may be possible to specialize building chains for some regions. Syracuse could have its own provincial capital building line, for instance.

You also have to figure that, with the state of the siege AI, more walled settlements may be a bad thing.

Another aspect of this that I'm thinking about is opening up building chains for every region. So, 'minor' settlements could build agoras/forums for instance. Military warfs etc. You would be free to build what all buildings everywhere and at least have more customization.

[Butan]

Interesting news, there is some hope!

Thanks for sharing.

[HerrBree]

although its cool that this is possible, I would hate to see every city with walls. I don't think minor settlements should have them until the progress to at least level 3.

And like you said a huge problem is the complete lack of city battle maps. I personally hate fighting on the same map over and over again.

[ABH2]

although its cool that this is possible, I would hate to see every city with walls. I don't think minor settlements should have them until the progress to at least level 3.

This is actually possible by modifying the building chains. Instead of upgrading to a level 3 minor settlement, it would, in the case of DeI, be possible to present the three level 3 major city building options.

And like you said a huge problem is the complete lack of city battle maps. I personally hate fighting on the same map over and over again.

I've thought about that, but they won't be the exact same. The game generates the maps based on the highest level of the provincial capital, it seems.

For instance, Syracuse is no longer minor at all. It will be, even with a level 2 major city settlement, a fully fleshed out Hellenistic city on the battle map (or Roman etc. depending on the building culture/owning faction).

So, there would still be some level of diversity.

I'm currently in the process of trying to add a province. I believe I've found everything in the pack files related to adding it into the main campaign. I'm just trying to work out the startpos.esf now. This would allow for more 6 building slot settlements, I believe.

[m_1512]

What about the campaign map though?

[ABH2]

What about the campaign map though?

At this time, I know of no way to get them to appear on the campaign map. There's someone I'm going to ask to see if they have any ideas, but I think at this time it may be impossible. That's perhaps the biggest issue. You really wouldn't know until you attack or are close whether a settlement has walls or not.

[Revan The Great]

This is an interesting topic...but frankly, given what a fiasco siege battles are, I can't imagine having every single city be walled. The real reason CA did away with walled cities for all provinces is because they knew how poorly the sieges played out because of the AI, degradation of performance, and just general lack of fun.

[ABH2]

This is an interesting topic...but frankly, given what a fiasco siege battles are, I can't imagine having every single city be walled. The real reason CA did away with walled cities for all provinces is because they knew how poorly the sieges played out because of the AI, degradation of performance, and just general lack of fun.

Every settlement would not be able to be walled, but I get your point. Right now, I'm coming up with a list of settlements that would be suitable both from a historical standpoint as well as gameplay/modding. Some aren't going to be able to have walls no matter what. I'm not going to give Arretium walls, for instance, because it would just be Rome at the highest level duplicated. Syracuse, Jerusalem etc. should have walls. Syracuse actually turns out nicely.

The best thing I can think of is giving the AI more siege equipment at the start of a battle. They are at least slightly less incompetent the more they have. I haven't gotten into that component of it yet, though.

Ideally, this would also be able to be coupled with a graphical addition for the campaign map so people can see walls, but I'm not sure if that's possible right now.

Either way, I'm just gauging interest right now. A lot of people have clamored for this despite the terrible siege AI.

[ABH2]

So, after working on this more, I've made some progress on the settlement construction site/slot issue.

People have added slots pretty easily since a few months after the game came out. But they suffered from two issues:
1. The extra building site would give a message on a a character being in the way of building there.
2. If they placed a building in the slot, the game crashed. I know one person who I believe was doing this and said the game was unstable with the extra spots.

I've now gotten 6 building slots to work in Rome and the game functions smoothly. Right now, the 6th building slot can't be edited or changed in game, though. But the game runs fine from what I've seen so far.

[rjacko10]

This is crazy. I'm trying to find a way to remove all walled battles because the AI is useless and pathfinding drives me insane.

[ABH2]

The same way I'm adding walls is the same way you can take them away. There may be one other method, but I'm not sure if it works. I haven't tried it. Either way, it requires modifying the startpos.esf. It would need to be done every time CA or DeI releases anything new.

EDIT - The building slot, for anyone interested.

Rome 6th slot, mostly functional

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Game runs fine. I'm still testing some things, but I consider this progress and it opens some possibilities. I'm still hoping to find a way to make those extra spots editable instead of being stuck with whatever I put there at the start.

I think there are some tables in the DB that may help, but they don't open in PFM so they'll have to wait. I think the issue may have something to do with the region slot number I'm assigning as placeholders. They may need to go in order. But the DB files would help eliminate possibilities.

It could also be a result of CA's wonderful expanding cities as in the animations and models they use when you build and a city expands. If that's the case, this would be the best I could do on this issue.

[rjacko10]

The same way I'm adding walls is the same way you can take them away.

Sounds promising! Of course it would be better if CA fixed the damn siege AI, but as 9 months has now passed I'm beginning to lose hope.

If you crack this would it be difficult to make an additional submod where there are no settlement battles (major and minor) at all?

For me this game is all about field battles.

[AGM]

The same way I'm adding walls is the same way you can take them away. There may be one other method, but I'm not sure if it works. I haven't tried it. Either way, it requires modifying the startpos.esf. It would need to be done every time CA or DeI releases anything new.

EDIT - The building slot, for anyone interested.

Rome 6th slot, mostly functional

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Game runs fine. I'm still testing some things, but I consider this progress and it opens some possibilities. I'm still hoping to find a way to make those extra spots editable instead of being stuck with whatever I put there at the start.

I think there are some tables in the DB that may help, but they don't open in PFM so they'll have to wait. I think the issue may have something to do with the region slot number I'm assigning as placeholders. They may need to go in order. But the DB files would help eliminate possibilities.

It could also be a result of CA's wonderful expanding cities as in the animations and models they use when you build and a city expands. If that's the case, this would be the best I could do on this issue.

If you are unable to edit the added building slot during the game, it might be interesting to set these slots as "historical buildings". Famous temples, tombs, palaces, etc (which would give specific bonuses, naturally). Could add to immersion, especially if minor land locked settlements could have an additional slot for such buildings. However, if you are able to change the building slot during the game it does add to customization.

[ABH2]

I tried to find a solution real quick. I dug around the DB, but I couldn't find any sally settings besides the one for minor settlements in the campaign variables. Unless I'm crazy, the AI does sally out occasionally when in a major settlement, don't they? I think I recall that happening at some point...I tried just throwing in a major settlement line just for the hell of it, but didn't seem to work.

I do recall a mod on Steam a while back that claimed it always made the AI sally during sieges, but I couldn't find it when I looked. I think the reduced siege time submod in the DeI forum is probably the closest you can get. 1-2 turn sieges, and the AI sallies out or they arrive with a reinforcement army and attack.

Sorry, but at this point, I don't know how to remove sieges entirely. I'll keep my eye out as I test things out, but I went through just about every table and didn't see anything.

To remove walls is pretty easy, but it's a little tedious and would require a bit of testing. It's also time consuming. It would require a thorough edit of the startpos.esf which, again, is only good until the next patch.

[rjacko10]

I tried to find a solution real quick. I dug around the DB, but I couldn't find any sally settings besides the one for minor settlements in the campaign variables. Unless I'm crazy, the AI does sally out occasionally when in a major settlement, don't they? I think I recall that happening at some point...I tried just throwing in a major settlement line just for the hell of it, but didn't seem to work.

I do recall a mod on Steam a while back that claimed it always made the AI sally during sieges, but I couldn't find it when I looked. I think the reduced siege time submod in the DeI forum is probably the closest you can get. 1-2 turn sieges, and the AI sallies out or they arrive with a reinforcement army and attack.

Sorry, but at this point, I don't know how to remove sieges entirely. I'll keep my eye out as I test things out, but I went through just about every table and didn't see anything.

To remove walls is pretty easy, but it's a little tedious and would require a bit of testing. It's also time consuming. It would require a thorough edit of the startpos.esf which, again, is only good until the next patch.

Thanks dude! Keep up the good work.

[ABH2]

Thought I would add pictures for those interested. Syracuse is pretty cool. Jersusalem is a generic walled settlement on the battle map.

Syracuse siege 1:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

3

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Jerusalem campaign map:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[rem123456]

Sound like you are about to do the impossible ABH2, well done. Like other I'm concerned about more walls with the current siege ai so it makes sense to only give walls to the most important cities. Freeing building slots on the other hand sounds great as long as it is done in moderation, we still want the player to choose his buildings carefully.

[Mr.IAmHere]

Oh My God. I think I'm witnessing the birth of a modding god...

[shawn858]

deer lord, this is just beautiful :] you make me happy in the pants by doing this, it really annoyed the crap out of me that syracuse seemed so underwhelming. Hopefully in the future this sort of thing can be implemented on more cities, that is, once the seige AI is fixed *if ever*

[JObadiah]

This is some really encouraging stuff.