Ultra-Aggressive Expansion

[Ren the Unclean]

I just recently switched to DeI from Radious. The enhanced realism of DeI was something I have been missing since RSII. I am really enjoying it and appreciate all of your hard work.

However, there is one thing that I am hoping to solve...

I have started two campaigns now on Normal and Hard, and in each campaign within 20 turns or so, a huge number of factions get wiped out. In my first campaign, by turn 50 or so there were several massive empires developing (Sparta, Massalia, Syracuse, etc.) that threatened to wipe out the entire western med. I usually play Rome at a pace that simulates Rome's historical expansion...slow by many I suppose. But at this kind of pace I suspect the late game will be Rome against one or two massive empires of whoever steamrolled everyone else early game. Ironically, its not factions like Carthage and Parthia that did have large empires...but small or insignificant factions that historically had little geo-footprint.

Is there any way (or submod) that can tame down the aggressiveness of the AI a bit so borders remain somewhat historical for a while? Or perhaps a script that at least provides major buffs and garrisions to factions when their capital is attacked so they don't get wiped out so easily? I also wonder if resurrecting a few armies (particularly for barbarian factions) several turns after the faction is destroyed would also keep them in the game and slow expansion. All just ideas.

I remember the same problem with Empire TW too. I don't know what Darth did to solve it, but his AI mods really seemed to settle this down a bit.

All in all DeI is my favorite mod for Rome II, without doubt. If you could solve the expansion problem, it would be perfect!

[Totalknight]

yup, I agree, they get wiped out too fast, just year 200 BC for me and it got boring by the time I get to the east......

[m_1512]

This is being looked by the team and would be resolved soon.

One thing is that the version you are playing is not the main version (v1.0), it is a beta.

[Dresden]

The irony is that you could come to this forum a month ago and find complaints that the AI is too passive and doesn't expand.

It is all a balancing act

[Naga Prince]

I would actually like if there was a mechanism that made the AI fear you and become certain to attack you ala Shogun-style, when you amassed half the Japanese Isles under your control. In my current game as Macedon (Hellenic League) which made things so much easier in gaining Imperium by assimilating Massilia that had most of France, I'm more powerful than anyone currently. Ardiaei is the closest I have to being on-par with me, yet we've been Military Allies since the dawn of Mankind. Athens and Sparta never stroke me, whilst I'm purging the world of Horse Archers in Asia and Europe.

Just thinking, I think it would make the whole aggressive AI interesting if there could be modifiers gained every Imperium level that make it substantially more difficult in maintaining relationships with everyone else. By the 4th and 5th Imperium, you should have your neighbors tense, because I don't know if anyone else knows, but I'm beginning to doubt the only way I will achieve annexing Macedon proper, is by starting war on all my allies in order to gain it. Which is cool, but surprising that they haven't done so the same yet either.

Lastly I want to add, when my Civil War stroke (totally shocked) because I thought maybe DeI removed the feature like Radious did when I used it, the Antigonid Noble's just stood around Pella till the Attrition brought their 20+ stacks units were down at red-bars, which they became frantically moving outward like ants. Than again, I kept my Greece area properly garrisoned with the elite units I incremenally gained over the course of the campaign. Maybe a Shogun-style mechanic might alleviate the OP's issue?

[m_1512]

I would actually like if there was a mechanism that made the AI fear you and become certain to attack you ala Shogun-style, when you amassed half the Japanese Isles under your control. In my current game as Macedon (Hellenic League) which made things so much easier in gaining Imperium by assimilating Massilia that had most of France, I'm more powerful than anyone currently. Ardiaei is the closest I have to being on-par with me, yet we've been Military Allies since the dawn of Mankind. Athens and Sparta never stroke me, whilst I'm purging the world of Horse Archers in Asia and Europe.

Just thinking, I think it would make the whole aggressive AI interesting if there could be modifiers gained every Imperium level that make it substantially more difficult in maintaining relationships with everyone else. By the 4th and 5th Imperium, you should have your neighbors tense, because I don't know if anyone else knows, but I'm beginning to doubt the only way I will achieve annexing Macedon proper, is by starting war on all my allies in order to gain it. Which is cool, but surprising that they haven't done so the same yet either.

Lastly I want to add, when my Civil War stroke (totally shocked) because I thought maybe DeI removed the feature like Radious did when I used it, the Antigonid Noble's just stood around Pella till the Attrition brought their 20+ stacks units were down at red-bars, which they became frantically moving outward like ants. Than again, I kept my Greece area properly garrisoned with the elite units I incremenally gained over the course of the campaign. Maybe a Shogun-style mechanic might alleviate the OP's issue.

You just given me an interesting idea. I'll go flesh it out.

[Naga Prince]

If what you're possibly doing is realized, I scorn you for making me relish the next major release of this mod more.

[m_1512]

If what you're possibly doing is realized, I scorn you for making me relish the next major release of this mod more.

It is actually something more. Not sure if you realized this, but what you just described can nicely fit with 2-3 more gameplay features.

[Matmannen]

Try the historical development mod (there are several depending on which faction you play). It works great for me...

[Ren the Unclean]

Try the historical development mod (there are several depending on which faction you play). It works great for me...

??? Are these submods for RTW?

[Ren the Unclean]

After spending another day with playing with it, I am going to wait until 0.9 or 1.0 to start another Grand campaign. I understand some people found the non-aggressive Ai before boring, but when Garamantia rules over its Carthaginian subjugates and over half the western Med and the Spartan Empire is expanding quickly toward Syria as if led by Alexander himself, the ahistorical madness of it seems to rob a lot of fun...Not to mention, I was really looking forward to kicking Parthian ass late in game. (Parthia almost never survives my past few games).

I started a Caesar in Gaul campaign last night. I'll give that a try for a while.

[ThatWhichThinks]

I always thought the time moved a little slowly. While the Polybian reforms are pretty well-timed in general, it would take around 500 turns to get to where the Marian reforms would have historically arisen. That's why I didn't mind the 1 turn per year system, though 2 turns per year is probably good as well. I have never managed to play a campaign long enough to reach Imperial reforms.

I guess my point is that with the way expansion works in all TW titles, you inevitably have factions ballooning up way more quickly that would have been historically feasible. In order to simulate that realistically, you would need a system closer to what Paradox uses in the Europa Universalis titles.

[A_I]

I must agree with this topic.

Need to slow down the expansion of all nations...

after 200 turn always left only few nations and thats all.

If someone like to play with slow expansion and not rush and take provinces turn by turn is really boring because till that time almost all are dead.

[Shaggy1973]

If anyone's interested I've been playing Mitch's mod, but configured a little weirdly (maybe).

I named EVERY faction as major, and turned on the weighting system for defensive battles only, except for battles I can see in the FoW. The effect is pretty good. The world seems very active, with settlements changing hands that I can see, but outside my view things remain more static than before. Effect is aggressive AI, lots of fights, but the world remains largely recongnisable.

Try it - maybe DeI could implement something similar as standard?

[Don_Diego]

Found this submod very good when I last played a campaign.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...re-mod-manager

Just started of a new Rome campaign whilst testing 0.9 without the submod and it is noticeable straight away that again; Sparta, Syracuse and Massalia start massive empires. (By 60 turns Sparta had conquered all Greece and Illyria (except Macedon allies). However also Carthage is doing much better than before in DEI and also made large empire in Spain. I think the changes to the minor African nations have helped a lot here.

My tactics as Rome are to straight away conquer Syracuse and make them Client state as I hate to see them wipe out Carthage (Thats my job as the Romans damn it!!!) Also I have stayed friendly with Carthage so that we can have a nice big war later.

Love the submod and I'm sure more balancing will be done in main DEI after next release. Until then try out the submods.

[Dresden]

Mitch's Major factions mod is one way to do it and is compatible with DeI. It is for those who would prefer having specific historical empires every single playthrough.

Some players prefer a more random experience each time they play.

This topic of AI expansion, aggression and certain empires existing has been an issue since the release of Rome 2. The basic fact is, unless you use something drastic like Mitch's mod or very faction-specific like the historical submod, there are very few ways to change the "sand-box" experience that is at the heart of the game. Each time, some ahistorical empires will indeed rise.

If I turn down the AI aggression, there will inevitably be 10 posts about a player who watched the AI just sit there and never expand. Or attacked the AI only to have the AI respond poorly. I am sorry, but playthroughs will be different for everyone. An aggressive AI is the only way to ensure a somewhat challenging experience for the player.

[Arimnestos]

Might have been lucky but seemed fine on my last campaign. I was sparta. All the big names had expanded. carthage, rome, seleucids, pontus, egypt. It also depends who you ally with. I had to help rome a few times with carthage. Didnt really have any of the smaller factions left. The nervii were kicking off in northern europe. Good campaign till i heard .09 was coming then lost interest