On regrouping and battlefield mobility

**dapony** · June 01, 2014, 09:51 AM

It seems like turning units, and some slight manouvers during battles can be very heavy on morale, it seems like an instant rout to even try pulling a unit away from the front row. I personally find this very frustrating, especially with the lengthy combats and such, but I wanted to know if anyone have noticed and taken note of this problem aswell, and if they have: if there is a workaround.

**m_1512** · June 01, 2014, 10:01 AM

Could elaborate on this? Also with some screens, if possible.

**Butan** · June 01, 2014, 10:15 AM

I think he meant, since "attack on flank" and "attack on rear" flag debuff only needs a slight contact on the flank/rear, and that it is extremely destructive to one's morale, everytime you move a unit , you risk it behind flagged and consequently routed.

I think some tinkering could be done to give a bit more free-caring manoeuver, but overall its perfectly reasonable to have bad effects of trying to pull back a unit which is under duress.

Also its one of the most important part of winning a battle in Rome 2 : dont expose your flank/rear, either by the positioning of your lines, or when you are manoeuvering (either adding or substracting frontline units).

**m_1512** · June 01, 2014, 11:08 AM

Ah.. okay. But if I am not wrong, the OP is about the morale penalty to move a unit out of fighting. In this case, I think it is realistic enough if you consider that pulling back from a fight was not an easy feat. If you imagine yourself as a soldier in antiquity, then you could see that retreats were really delicate and could easily become routs.

Logically, if you were in the last ranks, you'd pull back. If in mid ranks, then you'd be reluctant to expose your back to an enemy separated from you by some front ranks. For the front ranks, I don't think it was safely possible to hold the line and retreat in order.

**Kutkaboutert** · June 01, 2014, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by m_1512

Ah.. okay. But if I am not wrong, the OP is about the morale penalty to move a unit out of fighting. In this case, I think it is realistic enough if you consider that pulling back from a fight was not an easy feat. If you imagine yourself as a soldier in antiquity, then you could see that retreats were really delicate and could easily become routs.

Logically, if you were in the last ranks, you'd pull back. If in mid ranks, then you'd be reluctant to expose your back to an enemy separated from you by some front ranks. For the front ranks, I don't think it was safely possible to hold the line and retreat in order.

There is a very important difference between retreating and pulling back. Since the latter is a tactical manoeuvre in which adequatly trained soldiers wouldn't turn their backs on the enemy and slowly move back while actually holding the line, which can be used to let an enemy unit "flank itself" sort of. But the first is a (partly) unorganized attempt to get distance between you and the enemy, and would obviously quite easily turn into a rout.

Unfortunately something like that obviously can't be recreated in Rome 2. Would be a hell of a feature though if it was possible. Maybe building in something that units that are ordered backwards and aren't double timed slowly move backwards orderly without changing their facing.

**dapony** · June 01, 2014, 02:25 PM

I actually meant just what Butan said, but the general case is when I want my entire unit to just take a step back, it retreats. Often I have to move them because they push the frontline by themselves, effectively moving into the middle of the enemy army. It is actually a vanilla thing, but this seems to always be happening when a unit is at a large advantage and is taking down many enemies at the front. I think the best solution might actually be to make them even more stationary while in a defensive formation like a shieldwall or a phalanx.

**ThatWhichThinks** · June 02, 2014, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by dapony

I actually meant just what Butan said, but the general case is when I want my entire unit to just take a step back, it retreats. Often I have to move them because they push the frontline by themselves, effectively moving into the middle of the enemy army. It is actually a vanilla thing, but this seems to always be happening when a unit is at a large advantage and is taking down many enemies at the front. I think the best solution might actually be to make them even more stationary while in a defensive formation like a shieldwall or a phalanx.

Exactly this. I hate it when my pike phalanxes are working well, but then I don't look at them for a few seconds and they have advanced into enemy formations for some reason and become engulfed!

**Butan** · June 02, 2014, 11:13 AM

Yea.... the semi-guard mode perma-on is quite

. You always have to be warry of some of your units having mind of their own to start sidestepping or advancing inside the enemy formation...

The general rule with retreating units that are in melee contact, is that you just cant if the unit you want to back off has too low morale already.
If your unit is shaken/wavering without even the "attacked in the rear" flag, dont ever try to move it, it will break.
If your unit is shaken/wavering and is already with the "attacked in the rear" flag, you can try but its risky.
If your unit is still steady/eager, you can move it back, at worst it will become shaky/waver (except if its a weak morale unit, then it can break too).

Sometimes (by chance) moving a unit back can be done in a way (relative to the animation and presence of melee contact or not) that the retreating unit is no more in contact, so it doesnt suffer from morale penalty. In those cases you can save any kind of units from breaking, but its hard to predict this scenario is going to happen or not.