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  1. #1
    Bradley's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide

    Hi everyone!

    Recently I found, that new patch, 2.6., of one of my favourite mods is out and I could not resist and jumped back in.

    What faction should I play now, I asked myself. I had a lot of fun with Bosporus previously in 2.5. (well, defeating Sarmatia, Scythia, Macedonia, Armenia, bit of Pontos, large part of Greece and than I got upset for so much spawn 0 turn armies, so I quited), so I wanted to try another swap faction. And because I much more like 1 turn campaign, didnt want to be in Asia Minor, because I played Pergamon, Pontos, Scythia, Bosporan, Armenia so many times, the choice was Syracusae or Massalia. And because I already tried Syracusae before, I chose Massalia (well, I was interested in the greco-celtic symbiosis and how it works).

    Massalia 1turn it is then.

    Here are my observations:

    1) ARMY
    Massalian army is quite special mix of celtic and greek soldiers. You have Massalian and Celtohellenic hoplites, reliable infantry line holders with spears and swords (if I remember correctly those are celtic long swords). Consider them on par with any traditional hoplites - bithynian, bosphoran, pergamonese, corinthian, rhodian, cretan,... litle bit of stat here, litle bit of stat there, basicaly they are solid line holders and solid vs. cavalry. They dont have any impresive charge bonus, but when in combat, their swords do work pretty well.
    To complement them you have celtic maniacaly obsesed killing machines clad in chain mail infantry. Celtic axeman, salues swordsmen, helvetii infantry, heavy celtic spearmen...
    U know where Im heading, dont you?
    Exactly so: enemy army comes, crashes in your line of hoplites (counter charge recommended) and than an army of sreaming war crying axeman/javelin throwing sworsman emerges from that bush over there and kicks some polybian asses really painfully.

    Especialy those axeman can make really impressive charges when war cry is activated.

    You obviously noticed Im not writing nothing about cavalry. Let me tell you this. Massalia has nothing special considering cavalry. Traditional "workhorse" Lonchophoroi (or how it is writen) is here, some celtic javelin throwers, some greek javelin throwers... and thats it. No spectacular cataphract-like cavalry (im looking at you, Gallaeci), no shiny and polished Syracusaean Ubercavalry. No. But that is not a problem. Lonchophoroi and your general cavalry can destroy anything that is not faster than them with one exception - Gallaeci "Im not really a cataphract" cavalry. Sacred cavalry from Carthage I consider on par with Massalian best, It really depends on charging, chevrons and stuff. Of course Im talking about surrounding factions.

    And what about those who are faster? Let them come, your Celtic archers should kill them, possibly your celtic slingers (Balearic later).

    Yes, Massalia is about infantry, but with decent cavalry. Not heartbreaking/bonecrushing/arrowspewing/ cataphracts, but better than Roman (your main enemy), and at least on par with cavalry of other nations. So dont be worried.

    And dont worry, it will get better later with mercenaries.

    2) ECONOMY and WAR
    Massalia has a litle bit tricky surroundings. You are on the main road from east to the west and opposite. Carthies coming from the left, Romans coming from the right, Arverni lurking whos loosing to choose sides, Gallaeci throwing javelins on everyone. And in the middle, there is Mighty city of Massalia. Problem in this situation is to choose sides correctly. It is inevitable to fight Rome - one way or another, you will be in war with them. That means, that alliance with them is worthless. What usually works is aliance with Carthies, trade rights with Arverni and Gallaeci and Boii, maybe greek cities and Dacia/Macedon, because, you know, you will rule Italy one day and it is better to be prepared. If Romans do not succes to capture Bononia, I ally myself with Boii to, because we have common enemy.
    Key is not to enrage Gallaeci - pay them tributes, give them gifts, have some solid (5-6) troops in cities neigbouring their teritory (in my case it is Sagunton, Emporiae). And let them fight with Carthies - that frees your hands for war with rome and secures one side of your empire. Im also sending spies to former Carthaginian cities conquered by Gallaeci, because it is quite easy to make it revolt to Carthies or free nations and Gallaeci are threfor in non ending war.
    Second key is my so called "Massalian ARRRR" strategy. Those educated in pirate symbolism know what Im going to talk about now. Yes - to conquer Roman republic you need to broke their economy. Frontal attack may be successful in the start, but you will be overwhelmed in the end. Massalian ARRR strategy has two phases: first phase is the "Take it all, lads!" phase and consists mainly of making pirate raids on Italian cities on west coast of Italy, Sardinia, Corsica, Sicilia. You dont want to keep conquered cities, you want to come, conquer, depopulate, destroy everything you can and start building your faction settlement building and temple or two. It will help you to get culture bonuses when you conquer the city later. Well, then take it all, board your ships and continue. Of course, your armies can plunder Taurasia, Genoa, Mediolanum maybe Arretium or Ariminum by foot. For example when I plundered Mediolanum I gave it to Boii and they were sending some few stacks from there to kill Romans. And do not forget - it is probable, that Macedonians, maybe Greeks, will make few invasions, because Rome is spending everything on you and does not have time and resources to wage war with them.
    And one thing of most importance: Corsica is considered exclusive territory by Carthies, they will start war with you, when you take it. So after you conquer it, raze it, depopulate and give it to Carthage. Romans do like to retake it so start war with carthage again. Sardinia is not worth holding either, because Rome is trying to take it back and it is not economic to keep garrison there. So raze and let it riot.

    This way youll get a lot of money to build buildings in your core cities (for me Massalia, Emporion, Nemausus), to improve army and to keep being alive. Then comes the "My house is your house dear Massalian" phase. Thanks to the first phase, rome is sending only weak armies and though they can get to recruit legions, thanks to phase one, they dont have barracks to recruit them, so you will probably face polybian and maybe auxiliary forces only. I did. And this is the time when you take a solid character, equip him with good army and take everything on that peninsula. I prefer to depopulate cities, because U will have to face solid civil disorder because of squalor and culture.

    After this, Italy is yours, you now take Sardinia (if need to), than Sicily incl. Syracusae (greeks will be attacking you pretty sure and you want to destroy that fancy town because you can). And now you should have quite secure and economically strong position. From this point i prefer to destroy Gallaeci (who by now should be killing Carthage and probably at the gates of the city of KarthHadast). Gallaeci are at war with carthies and your back stabing moves will make them fight on two fronts. And, to be honest, Gallaeci are so rich, that they deserve to be destroyed, because I can use their money much better than they can, right? So you take your Pirate hordes and plunder the sunny coasts of Spain and Portuguese.

    After that, I suppose Carthage, because it is there (and has your Corsica), and after that, well Arverni are to close, arent they?

    Massalia is awesome faction to play, challenging and funny. Nice roster of units, interesting place on map and all those PIRATES! ARRRR!


    WARNING: game experience may differ



    Excuse moi for my english (and french :-)

  2. #2
    Mega Tortas de Bodemloze's Avatar Do it now.
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    Default Re: Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide


    A French romantic depiction of princess Gyptis {1875}

    Thank you sooo much for the faction breakdown, very nice.......+Rep:

    Welcome to the TWC Forums... Here's a couple of threads that you may find useful...


  3. #3
    Bradley's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide

    Thank you very much!
    Im stalking this forum for quite a long time now, absorbing knowledge and stuff, but till now i didnt really felt a need to express myself. But Massalia campaign is really enjoyable and kind of "out of stereotypes"-ish, RS II patch 2.6. I consider very stable and my RTW enthusiasm is again on pretty high level, so I decided to contribute to the community. One of my motives was also insuficiency of any informations at all available on any swap factions (and that is also reason i mainly play them).

  4. #4
    Domesticus
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    Default Re: Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide

    My praises for your faction summary.

    As someone who toyed around a bit with Massalia during 2.5, i feel forced to comment.

    We play with what we got, that is to say, as experienced RTW players that i assume we all are, we need to deal with this AI and, in Massalia's case, it is particulary annoying.

    As we know, no matter what we do, the AI will attack you. Gifts and all that have very limited results in my opinion.

    Biggest annoyance in this campaign is that as soon as you move your initial forces to do some fighting, you can expect the romans immediatly showing up at your city's gates. 9 times out 10 that will happen which, obviously, conditions your strategy from the start, having to funnel your funds into military assets.

    I did manage,once, to conquer most of Italy.

  5. #5
    Bradley's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide

    I totaly agree with you and what you describe happened in my two campaigns too. The moment I conquered Nemausus and moved further, Romans knocked on my door, so I had to turn back, and Arverni took town i have been besieging instead of me. Thats why I wrote, that war with Rome is inevitable.

    But with Gallaeci there is my experience (so far in my two Massalian campaigns, Roman one and Syracusaean one), that as long as they fight Carthage and you dont take Carthago Nova (well anything except Sagunton and Emporiae), they are able to keep peace for the gift of 200 denarii/turn (and also some garrison in border cities). They often cross my lands, sometimes their diplomat comes and says "Give us Sagunton or we will wage war with you" or something alike, but in the shape the diplomacy in RTW is, I make counter proposal "Ill give you a gift of 200 denarii and map information" and they accept and walk along with many thanks and are friendly for next 20-30 turns. I may be lucky though.

    Im more surprised that Arverni are so calm, they are not attacking me at all (although I usually have quite a large garrisons).

  6. #6
    High Fist's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide

    I used your ARRR tactic once as the Belgae. I migrated to Britain and raided every Cimbrii, Gallic and Spanish coastal city I could to fuel my economy. Only thing I didn't like was the limited movement for fleets... Still was fun.

    +rep for the breakdown and whatnot, some funny bits in there.
    The only self-discipline you need is to finish what you sta-

  7. #7
    Bradley's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide

    I would +rep too, but i cant find the button If anyone could help me, I would surely +rep him

  8. #8
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide

    jupp, you need more posts (30 i think) to +rep someone else.

  9. #9
    High Fist's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide

    You should be able to as you've been here for more than 2 weeks. It's the green plus button next to the report button, under your name.
    The only self-discipline you need is to finish what you sta-

  10. #10
    Bradley's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Massalia 1turn swap faction in 2.6, observations and sort of guide

    Oh I see. Thank you guys. Ill try not to forget my promise and give rep as soon as I can Till then...

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