AI cheats are rendering the battles unplayable.

**Didz** · May 29, 2014, 05:30 AM

I'm currently playing an Oda + Ikko Ikki co-op game with my son on 'Very Hard' difficulty, and one thing we have noticed is that for the most part playing the battles 'in real time' is a bad strategy simply because of the extent to which the AI cheats. You actually get a better, and fairer, result by auto-resolving, which is pretty stupid for a game that sells itself on it's real time battle engine.

Naval battles are the worst example. Once the AI gets fire arrows any ship that comes within range of an AI controlled Bow Kabouya is almost guaranteed to be kindling, and good luck finding a bucket once one of your ships are on fire. By comparison you can surround an enemy admirals ship with a blast furnace of fire arrows and it won't catch fire. The AI clearly has access to asbestos tree's.

On land we have seen some weird cheating by the AI, including a strange scenario where the AI seems to be able to selectively give orders to your troops and order them to attack, or not attack, as it see's fit. This might actually be a bug, but I've found myself having to repeat the same order up to six times before I finally got a unit to respond. The other big issue is with Grouping, where for reason I fail to understand units will random detach themselves from groups in the middle of battles, and if not noticed will end up isolated and create gaps in carefully prepared formations.

On a more positive note, we've found the Auto-Resolve produces pretty good results, and so we are leaving more and more of the battles now to the AI v AI. I just think it's a bit sad that I don't get to command my troops anymore because of these AI cheats.

**spartan117** · May 29, 2014, 06:06 AM

I have seen this thread from the main twcenter page. I dont have shogun 2 total war but I have all the other total war games. The effects of difficulty probably change from game to game. Generally the ai will have increase morale, greater stamina, and I think ETW had increased hull damage depending on level of difficulty. Many do not like that the ai gets these extra bonuses however you can always lower the battle difficulty. In all other total war games there is a campaign difficulty and battle difficulty. I dont personally autoresolve but campaign difficulty may increase ai odds in autoresolve battles or at least one of the difficulties will.

As for units leaving grouping, I know for one routing units will leave any group formed and will stay that way even if they return to battle. Unless something is different in Shogun 2 total war, I suspect that is what is occurring. That or maybe you are dragging the unit card outside of the unit group.

**Didz** · May 29, 2014, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by spartan117

I have seen this thread from the main twcenter page. I dont have shogun 2 total war but I have all the other total war games. The effects of difficulty probably change from game to game. Generally the ai will have increase morale, greater stamina, and I think ETW had increased hull damage depending on level of difficulty. Many do not like that the ai gets these extra bonuses however you can always lower the battle difficulty. In all other total war games there is a campaign difficulty and battle difficulty. I dont personally autoresolve but campaign difficulty may increase ai odds in autoresolve battles or at least one of the difficulties will.

Hi Spartan, like you I'm a long standing TW player having started with the original Shogun TW. So, I know how the difficultly system normally works. However, this is the worst example I've seen to date of blatant cheating by the AI. One can cope with high morale and weapon efficiency, but the fire arrow thing especially is a game killer as far as naval battles are concerned.

**Destin Faroda** · May 29, 2014, 06:27 AM

Play on normal difficulty. On higher difficulties, the AI receives unfair advantages like stats boosts.

**Didz** · May 29, 2014, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Destin Faroda

Play on normal difficulty. On higher difficulties, the AI receives unfair advantages like stats boosts.

I must admit I normally play ETW on Normal if only because of the desire to use diplomacy, which becomes ineffective at higher settings, but it does seem that players have a bit of hobsons choice with TW where normal is too easy and hard is impossible.

We could really do with a a setting of 'A bit more hard than Normal'

**LoGaL** · June 02, 2014, 01:28 PM

i play on very hard on the steam version ( i suppose i get very hard battles aswell), in the beginning, i faced your exact same problem, but i can ensure you that, with proper practice, fighting the beattles on real time produces way better results

**Trashcaticus** · June 02, 2014, 04:22 PM

On the harder difficulties the AI gets a stat boost where as on the easier ones, the player does. On the campaign difficulty, I think that just factors auto-resolve battles and disease outbreaks.

**Sjan** · June 04, 2014, 03:42 PM

"Unplayable" = "I keep getting my *** kicked"

AI cheats are the only way to keep the game challenging.

I only play on legendary, and in spite of these AI cheats I have achieved total mastery over both naval and land battles. The little arrow ships are extremely vulnerable to being boarded and need to be intercepted with your faster ships before they can engage your larger ships. Once they are dealt with, the larger ships can have their way with the others. Use bomb throwing and cannon-equiped ships to shake up morale. Make sure the navy is lead by an experienced general. It matters.

For land battles, assassinate 4+ star generals before engaging the AI, otherwise the the AI troops will fight like mad. A 4+ star general with ashigaru troops will take down your 1 star general and his samurai. Once the battle is engaged, kill the general as quickly as possible. Have enough cavalry on hand for that specific purpose, otherwise have your archers target the general and he will often launch a suicidal attack against your troops. Always attack engaged troops from the rear. You must learn to use the terrain to your advantage. Once you learn how to fight sieges you can grind up 3 stacks at a time. Rocket armed-troops are the most powerful in sieges, whether attacking or defending, as they will blow units up regardless of their stats. Watching AI samurai go flying through the air is a lot of fun. When attacking an AI castle, rocket troops will turn it into a flaming pile of rubble. Gun-armed troops will likewise tear up AI troops regardless of their stats; they are the second most powerful units when defending a castle. It's a lot of fun to watch the AI samurai get mowed down en masse.

When you capture a resource such as warhorses, sell trade to the other factions. The most I have made in one deal is 32,000 koku. Put the money away and use it to flip AI stacks when they invade. Use the flipped AI stacks to go on a rampage through AI territory and pillage their towns for more koku and put the money away to flip more stacks in the future.

**Didz** · June 17, 2014, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Sjan

"Unplayable" = "I keep getting my *** kicked"

AI cheats are the only way to keep the game challenging.

That's sadly true, but only because CA have failed miserably, despite decades of experience, to come up with an AI that knows how to play their game. An AI that uses cheats to make the game more difficult rather than plays the game better is not an AI in my opinion.

However, as I said the issue for me is not that the AI cheats (that's pretty much standard for most games) but that the cheats it employs in Shogun 2 make the battles unplayable, The player is forced to Auto-Resolve rather than play the battles because of the extreme nature of the cheats. Oddly they don't seem to have as much influence over the auto-resolves, as they do in a played battle. So you just end up not playing half the game.