Turns until surrender...

[Kaidonni]

Being rather new to Shogun 2, I'm wondering exactly how the 'turns until surrender' mechanic works. I'm besieging Matsumoto in Summer 1545 (the turn the siege begins), and the tooltip indicates there are three turns until the garrison surrenders (or sallies forth in a last-minute bid to save themselves). I'm a little concerned about attrition - I'd really rather not suffer losses due to it, and I get really into organising my moves so it seems like poor planning if I let my army suffer attrition. When I end the Winter turn, will Matsumoto surrender, and if it does, will I suffer attrition regardless of the fact that I own the province, or will I be spared that? Of course, that leads me to my next question - once I end the Winter turn, is that when Matsumoto surrenders, or will that be when I end the Spring 1546 turn (ensuring my army suffers attrition)?

[Man o' War]

Hi my friend.

Well these are the kind of dillemas that can and sometimes will destroy you in Shogun 2 without good planning and foresight, particularly when moving through and besieging enemy provinces in winter.

Basically at the end of 3 turns the garrison will either surrender or sally forth and attack you. As soon as you're in possesion of the province you'll no longer suffer attrition but your troops may not replenish until certain buildings are repaired.

Another thing to be aware of is that all the time you're sat beseiging his castle he can be building up and sending forces from his other provinces to either pincer you before the 3 turns are over or alternatively immediately besiege you and your depleted forces after you have won the earlier siege. For this reason it's a good idea, especially if you're up against a strong opponent with multiple provinces, to make good use of spies, even passively, to keep an eye on enemy movements.

Hope this helps, best wishes with the game.

[Kaidonni]

Well, my opponent is Murakami Yoshikiyo, and his only forces are holed up in Matsumoto. It's right at the beginning, so not many armies around for my enemies (only the Murakami at the moment) and no agents for me. I'm wondering if when I end my Winter turn, is this when the surrender/sally forth happens, and should I happen to gain control of the province, I'll be spared attrition due to it being the end of a Winter turn, or will I suffer it regardless of what happens? Or are the three turns up when I end the Spring 1546 turn?

[Man o' War]

If you're now spring 1546, your next turn will be summer 1546, then autumn 1546, then winter 1546.
They will surrender or sally forth after you have ended your winter turn and should you win the province you will be in control of the province and not suffering attrition at the start of your next turn which will then be Spring 1547. They can sally forth earlier by the way, ie they may attack in autumn or summer.

Basically you've besieged them for 8 or 9 months until they're starved into submission or fight.

To confirm in your own mind how things work you could save your current game and then just hit "end turn" for 3 turns to see what happens, then reload.

If you're pretty new to Shogun 2 this is probably the single best guide to S2 out there.

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...-War-Shogun-II

[Kaidonni]

It's currently Summer 1545, the second turn, and the turn I started the siege (so three turns starting right now). By my estimates, Matsumoto should surrender/sally forth after I end Winter 1545, but I am unfamiliar with how the game counts the turns - it could be after I end Spring 1546 that the surrender/sally forth occurs, it might not count the turn I start the siege (when I look at the Dreaded Force trait, it seems that it counts the turn I gained it on, Spring 1545, so Winter is the final turn of that trait - maybe the Murakami turn in Winter 1545 is the surrender/sally forth afterall). I'm also thinking that I might suffer the attrition when I end Winter 1545, regardless of whatever happens next during the AI turn (so even if they surrender outright, because I ended my turn, the attrition happens right then and there).

I'd rather not jump ahead to see what happens, I'm just curious how the game actually decides when the attrition will be suffered; like you said, it might be once Spring 1546 begins, so it may be that ending my Winter 1545 turn in enemy territory doesn't have any bearing on it if I manage to win Matsumoto in the surrender/sally forth. The game does state it occurs when the player ends their turn with their forces in enemy territory, but the actual mechanic of precisely when it occurs is my concern - right after I click to end the turn, or when Spring 1546 itself roles around?

I've already reloaded once from Autumn 1545 after I mucked up the assault on Matsumoto (got Nobushige killed and most of my forces annihilated...Pyrrhic Victory), decided right after I eliminated Endo Yoshitoyo's army on the first turn was a safe restart point. If I do have to fight the Murakami in Winter 1545 (either directly assaulting or fighting their sally forth), I'll have my two generals - Shingen and Nobushige - a Yari Samurai, three Yari Ashigaru, three Bow Ashigaru and a Takeda Light Cavalry; otherwise, if they sally forth at the end of Autumn 1545 I'll have one Yari Ashigaru and one Bow Ashigaru less.