A Sad Announcement

**Mithridate** · May 29, 2014, 03:32 PM

This is the real deal, but I like to see a fellow riot <3

**Kyotsyu** · May 29, 2014, 05:51 PM

From a legal standpoint, doesn't copyright infringement require someone to be profiting from that usurpation of rights? I don't see anyone profiting from this mod so there's no actual damage here...

**Tiaexz** · May 29, 2014, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Kyotsyu

From a legal standpoint, doesn't copyright infringement require someone to be profiting from that usurpation of rights? I don't see anyone profiting from this mod so there's no actual damage here...

The fact TWC gets revenue from visits puts TWC into profiting from Westeros: TW and by proxy, profiting from GRRM's franchise. The legal reality is that bad, if Creative-Assembly really wanted, they could request TWC to be shut-down in a blink of an eye, same for the other fan-forums too. They just choose not to do it.

That is the sad-state of affairs in regards to copyright law.

**LestaT** · May 30, 2014, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Tiaexz

The fact TWC gets revenue from visits puts TWC into profiting from Westeros: TW and by proxy, profiting from GRRM's franchise. The legal reality is that bad, if Creative-Assembly really wanted, they could request TWC to be shut-down in a blink of an eye, same for the other fan-forums too. They just choose not to do it.

That is the sad-state of affairs in regards to copyright law.

^^^ This and possibly this :

As someone said whoever have the copyright probably is planning to make a Total War style game (with campaigns and battles) so eventhough the mod itself is free and did not generate any profit, to play the mod one must purchase a game which is not owned by the copyright holder. This will cause potential lost of income as people most probably not buy their GoT game since people already have a similar product like this mod.

This is the same with MERP since the game the WB game producing maybe competing with Skyrim so that the profit from people playing MERP will go to Bethesda rather than WB. The various LOTR mods for TW probably wasn't touched since the games are different genre though they are within every WB's rights to ask the same treatment.

**Kyotsyu** · May 30, 2014, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tiaexz

The fact TWC gets revenue from visits puts TWC into profiting from Westeros: TW and by proxy, profiting from GRRM's franchise. The legal reality is that bad, if Creative-Assembly really wanted, they could request TWC to be shut-down in a blink of an eye, same for the other fan-forums too. They just choose not to do it.

That is the sad-state of affairs in regards to copyright law.

Oh, yeah. Had forgotten TWC gets revenue through visits and advs... :/ That's probably their defense stand point, which is sad.

Oh well.

**b257** · May 30, 2014, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by ^OvO^

^^^ This and possibly this :

As someone said whoever have the copyright probably is planning to make a Total War style game (with campaigns and battles) so eventhough the mod itself is free and did not generate any profit, to play the mod one must purchase a game which is not owned by the copyright holder. This will cause potential lost of income as people most probably not buy their GoT game since people already have a similar product like this mod.

This is the same with MERP since the game the WB game producing maybe competing with Skyrim so that the profit from people playing MERP will go to Bethesda rather than WB. The various LOTR mods for TW probably wasn't touched since the games are different genre though they are within every WB's rights to ask the same treatment.

This is probably the case, makes you wonder if they do who is developing it. On topic, Macho makes some very good points too. Who knows, maybe if we plea with GRRM himself he'll put in a good word, since he has nothing to do with this as the publisher of his story is the one behind this.

**Feanaro Curufinwe** · May 30, 2014, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by ^OvO^

^^^ This and possibly this :

This is the same with MERP since the game the WB game producing maybe competing with Skyrim so that the profit from people playing MERP will go to Bethesda rather than WB. The various LOTR mods for TW probably wasn't touched since the games are different genre though they are within every WB's rights to ask the same treatment.

The existing Middle-earth mods are protected by them being released when EA held the license.

**LeicsFox** · May 30, 2014, 03:20 AM

A very sad day

**MachoKing** · May 30, 2014, 05:26 AM

Hi guys, not sure if you remember me or not, but I used to haunt these halls. I was checking back in, as I do from time to time, when I noticed your predicament. I am an attorney in the United States and would be happy to help.

I think there is a very good argument that your mod is in fact protected by the fair use doctrine in the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 107. Sadly it is up to TWC whether or not they want to stand behind that and you in a possible legal battle and keep this forum active. That not withstanding, I do believe that this letter is nothing more then a bluff. The fair use doctrine has 4 factors that are none exclusive that they primarily look at when considering a violation and in all 4 cases I believe you have a strong argument for fair use and thus protection.

If TWC does not want to take the gamble and host this mod anymore that is perfectly understandable, but by no means should this scare or deter the mod team from finishing their hard work. This can literally be hosted anywhere and if they send a letter to that host, then you move again. If they finally send one to a team member, that team member can simply drop out or choose to stand and fight. Best thing about this situation is the nature of a mod is a team effort and though they would pin it on someone, that person would have excellent legal procedural arguments to have the case tossed out before it ever went to trial.

It's early here and I need to go to work, but if you would like to talk about this more, please email me anytime.

MK

**Murfmurf** · May 30, 2014, 08:43 AM

Thanks Macho, that's much appreciated.

I'm sure a team member will be in touch!

**Crociato78** · May 30, 2014, 05:23 PM

Hello to all !

What's new on the output of the mod version 1.0 ?

**Andytheplatypus** · May 30, 2014, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Crociato78

Hello to all !

What's new on the output of the mod version 1.0 ?

dude.... Its like you dont know how to read

**Emperor Hantscher** · May 30, 2014, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Andytheplatypus

dude.... Its like you dont know how to read

Hey when's the next preview thread going to open up on TWC......you guys promised! trolololol

**Sigmar Heldenhamer** · May 31, 2014, 09:12 AM

this means download what you want now lol

**Shankbot de Bodemloze** · May 31, 2014, 12:41 PM

Has anyone tried to contact GRRM instead of replying to whoever sent the letter?

**UselessPoster** · May 31, 2014, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Shankbot de Bodemloze

Has anyone tried to contact GRRM instead of replying to whoever sent the letter?

GRRM if contacted would probably not respond anyway. Guess it depends how serious the letter was.

**Shankbot de Bodemloze** · May 31, 2014, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by EnglishPatriot

GRRM if contacted would probably not respond anyway. Guess it depends how serious the letter was.

If people are questioning the reliability of the firm and how it represents GRRM he might (maybe, slight chance, probably not) be interested to hear about it.

**MachoKing** · May 31, 2014, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Shankbot de Bodemloze

If people are questioning the reliability of the firm and how it represents GRRM he might (maybe, slight chance, probably not) be interested to hear about it.

While this is the best game ever made based on his work, GRRM has only ever given his support to one game that I know of and its a role playing text game. That was also way before he became a much more in demand person. That said, when it comes to the law, don't speak unless spoken to.