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  1. #1
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Through prayer and moral encouragement, of course. No, Vatican has not declared a Crusade, yet.

    JERUSALEM (AP) — Pope Francis delivered a powerful boost of support to the Palestinians during a Holy Land pilgrimage Sunday, repeatedly backing their statehood aspirations, praying solemnly at Israel's controversial separation barrier and calling the stalemate in peace efforts "unacceptable."

    In an unscripted move, Francis arranged a meeting between the Israeli and Palestinian presidents at the Vatican next month. The meeting, while largely symbolic, shows how the pope has sought to transform his immensely popular appeal into a moral force for peace.

    On the second day of a three-day swing through the region, the pope arrived in Bethlehem, the birthplace of Christianity, before heading to Israel for the final leg of his visit.

    While Francis mingled warmly with his Israeli hosts, his trip to Bethlehem included the day's most powerful images as he expressed sympathy and solidarity with the Palestinians.

    "I am with you," he told a group of Palestinian children at a stop in Bethlehem's Deheishe refugee camp. He also held a private lunch with five Palestinian families who say they have been harmed by Israeli policies.

    Even the pope's arrival in Bethlehem — by helicopter straight from Jordan — carried important symbolic significance. Past papal visits to the West Bank have come through Israel, which captured the territory in the 1967 Mideast war.

    Palestinian officials hailed Francis' decision to refer to the "state of Palestine." In its official program, the Vatican referred to President Mahmoud Abbas as the president of the "state of Palestine," and his Bethlehem office as the "presidential palace." He pointedly called Abbas a "man of peace."

    Jubilant Palestinians cheered Francis as he arrived in Bethlehem's Manger Square, shouting "Viva al-Baba!" or "Long live the pope!" Giant Palestinian flags in red, white, green and black and the Vatican's yellow-and-white flags decorated the square, which is home to the Church of the Nativity, built over the grotto where tradition says Jesus was born.

    "Coming to Bethlehem and flying to Bethlehem from Jordan shows solidarity with the Palestinian people, which is wonderful. We need that," said Samar Sakkakin, a 52-year-old Palestinian-American from Canton, Michigan.

    In November 2012, the U.N. General Assembly overwhelmingly recognized a "state of Palestine" in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem — lands Israel captured in the 1967 war — as a non-member observer. The recognition still has little meaning on the ground, with Israel remaining in full control of east Jerusalem, which it annexed in 1967, and the West Bank.

    However, it has enabled the Palestinians to start seeking membership in U.N. agencies and accede to international conventions in a further upgrade of their status. Israel objects to the Palestinian campaign, saying it is an attempt to bypass negotiations.
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    Well to be fair, Pope Francis just follows the UN/International Community guideline, although hopefully those events would finally convince Israelis their state is close to be considered as rogue state in International Community.
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  2. #2
    nce_wht_guy's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Israel retaliates by re-crucifying Christ.
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    Cybermat47's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    I'm an Atheist, but I like the new Pope. He's actually trying to do stuff.

  4. #4
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    And they thought the German ex Nazi pope hated Jews. Watch out for the Argentinian ex Nazi pope.

    On a more serious note, maybe he'll try to pull a Latin Empire and see if they Palestinians will convert to Catholicism in order to get Catholic support.

    Okay that wasn't very serious either.
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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    On a more serious note, maybe he'll try to pull a Latin Empire and see if they Palestinians will convert to Catholicism in order to get Catholic support.
    May be he just try to pave a way to new Crusade; wasn't Urban II's main motivation of First Crusade was to end the Muslims' abuse against Christians in Holy Land?
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    On a more serious note, maybe he'll try to pull a Latin Empire and see if they Palestinians will convert to Catholicism in order to get Catholic support.
    I think most Palestinian Christians are Catholic (Melkite), and the ones I that I know are against the two-state solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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    Trey's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I think most Palestinian Christians are Catholic (Melkite), and the ones I that I know are against the two-state solution.
    Most Palestinian Christians are in fact Orthodox, though there are many Catholics as well. When it comes to a two-state/one-state solution, the response is very mixed. I haven't noticed a 'Christian Palestinian' stance on the one-state/two-state debate. Many want a state of their own. However, any observer familiar with the reality realizes that realizing this goal is becoming less and less likely.
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey View Post
    Most Palestinian Christians are in fact Orthodox, though there are many Catholics as well.
    Ah okay, I've just met more Catholics then. I got curious about the actual percentages so I just went looking, but all I could find was the 1922 census.

    Maybe it's similar to today:

    48.50% Orthodox
    38.92% Catholic

    http://cs.anu.edu.au/people/bdm/yabber/census/PalestineCensus1922.pdf


    1% Templars Community, hmm...
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  9. #9
    Trey's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Ah okay, I've just met more Catholics then. I got curious about the actual percentages so I just went looking, but all I could find was the 1922 census.

    Maybe it's similar to today:

    48.50% Orthodox
    38.92% Catholic

    http://cs.anu.edu.au/people/bdm/yabber/census/PalestineCensus1922.pdf


    1% Templars Community, hmm...
    I don't have any statistics at hand either, but I would say that it feels similar today. Perhaps there is a slightly higher percentage of Protestants.

    Surely the Templars would be almost completely of German background.
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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I think most Palestinian Christians are Catholic (Melkite), and the ones I that I know are against the two-state solution.
    I'm 90% sure the majority are Orthodox! After all, we're next to them. There's a Patriarchate for Jerusalem and one for Antioch. Rome is far away.

    On topic: Good for the pope, good for the Palestinians, good for Peace.
    Last edited by alhoon; May 26, 2014 at 05:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I'm 90% sure the majority are Orthodox! After all, we're next to them. There's a Patriarchate for Jerusalem and one for Antioch. Rome is far away.
    I found the percentages from the 1922 census (posted earlier):

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    If it were all about geography you'd think they'd mostly be Coptic, but Coptic Christians were less than 1%, in 1922 anyway, but I doubt there are more now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    And they thought the German ex Nazi pope hated Jews. Watch out for the Argentinian ex Nazi pope.

    On a more serious note, maybe he'll try to pull a Latin Empire and see if they Palestinians will convert to Catholicism in order to get Catholic support.

    Okay that wasn't very serious either.
    I think you will find that many Palestinians are Catholic.
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  13. #13
    Makrell's Avatar The first of all fish
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post

    On a more serious note, maybe he'll try to pull a Latin Empire and see if they Palestinians will convert to Catholicism in order to get Catholic support.
    Nah, most palestianian christians are orthodox. about 5% i think. many of them migrated westward when israel was established, as europe swas more welcoming of christians than muslims.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    I wish people would stop taking jabs at Israel.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I wish people would stop taking jabs at Israel.
    When they stop i9mprisoning an entire people on land Israel stole at gun point, and even now floods with settlers who beat and rape people to get land...maybe we can talk.

  16. #16
    Hobbes's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I wish people would stop taking jabs at Israel.
    I wish Israel didn't take land from innocents

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  17. #17
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Gadaffi had the idea of a one-state solution, Isratina
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  18. #18
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Gadaffi had the idea of a one-state solution, Isratina
    I believe Sarah Palin called that country Iranistan. Just kidding, but that would have been funny.

  19. #19
    Durnaug's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Exactly. The only rational solution is a secular state that subsumes both Israel and Palestine. Strangely enough recent scholarship suggests that "Palestine" is an Ancient Greek play on the words Philistine and Israel. I think. I only read the abstract Although it might be just another biased shot fired in the "history" wars.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Pope gives Palestinians boost of support!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnaug View Post
    Strangely enough recent scholarship suggests that "Palestine" is an Ancient Greek play on the words Philistine and Israel. I think. I only read the abstract Although it might be just another biased shot fired in the "history" wars.
    Yeah, seems awfully dubious to me to me.

    In Hebrew:

    Philistine = פלשתי
    Palestine = פלשתינה (pronounced like in Latin)

    EDIT: Actually I just realized that Palaestina is the word for Philistines in Aramaic with a Latin feminine ending added.
    Last edited by sumskilz; May 25, 2014 at 07:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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