Best Italian State?

[The Computer Illiterate]

Hi,

I'm wondering what's the best italian state overall in terms of units, starting position, etc.

[Lifthrasir]

They all have good points and weaknesses. I personnally prefer to choose Sicily for their roster and starting position. I like the mix of units they have and with their starting position, you can expand wherever you want.

[Deteriorate]

Sicily's Norman knights are pretty sweet but I find their starting position too easy. I like Venice the most. Pesante Archers and Fanteria Pesante are pretty cool too even if you have to wait a while to get them from the early era. If you catch the HRE at war and off guard you can conquer Bologna and Innsbruck fairly easily.

In the late campaign with Venice, on turn 1 you can trade Rhodes and the town on Crete to the HRE for Bologna and an alliance. Bologna usually comes with a sizable urban militia garrison in the trade. Depending on how many you have, you can reinforce them with troops from Venice or Ancona, and with a general and you can take Pisa by turn 2-3. Now you have 4 settlements in northern Italy and you can probably take Milan before Genoa does.

[The Computer Illiterate]

What are your thoughts on Genoa? Their crossbowmen seem pretty good, along with their patricians.

[Deteriorate]

They are just as good although I personally dislike starting without a castle. If you choose to go with Venice or Genoa I would suggest installing this submod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Beta1-4-27-14 because it adds more political depth into ruling the Italian Republics.
Here is a quick description for the two Republics alone:
- Venice: ruled by The Signoria or Minor Council, there is a political career system that increases the authority of a general over time making them better candidates to become the Senior Consigliere (Faction Heir) and then the Doge itself. Political offices of the venetian republic come in two types, the 1st that can only be gained in the capital that improves the favour of the signoria and 2nd which can be obtained in far away territories that increase governing skills to minimize the negative effects of long capital distance thus encouraging maritime expansionism.

- Genoa: ruled by The Comune, similar to venetians the comune offers a political career system but with its own genoese flavour . Since Duxe was a title adopted in the 14th century, Genoans will have instead, Podesta(Faction Leader) and Capitano del popolo(Faction Heir), the political career offers the posibility of being elected as consul which can only be elected if far away from the capital, encouraging the maritime expansion. Consuls have improved governing skills that minimize the effects of long capital distance.

[Arccotangent]

I'd say all three have advantages and disadvantages, depending on how you prefer to play out the game.

Sicily has a rather centralized yet still defensible starting position, with a single land route to reach Sicily (the island) and other routes requiring sea transport. Not only are you able to move rather quickly across the map, assuming you have ships, but you also get the Rex Sicilie (sp?) bonus to your admirals, which provides a unique movement bonus to all fleets. The starting position allows you flexible movement, whether it's expanding along the Mediterranean or joining crusades to the east. The unit roster has it's strengths; my opinion is that past Castle tier, you get great castle units for the given tier. Castle tier Miles and Muslim archers are fairly good for that level of tech, as are Norman Knights at Fortress level, and Chivalric Knights plus dismounted Norman Knights at Citadel level. However, the city units while decent overall, are perhaps not as powerful as those of the other two Italian states.

Venice is situated in northern Italy and while the city itself is defensible with a bridge outside the settlement, you tend to get quite a few threats to your other settlements especially if you choose to expand significantly. The Byzantines, HRE, and Hungarians will often become hostile if you choose to expand out of Italy, while the Genoese and Sicilians may become enemies if you decide to push into the Italian peninsula. The plus is that the Northern Italy is a very rich region, with Venice itself being from what I've seen one of the richest single settlements if you are friendly with its neighbors and have trade agreements. I'd say that whereas Sicily gets exceptional melee infantry/cavalry out of their castles, Venice gets superior infantry/archers at the Fortress level. The Pesante Archers are powerful archers that you could roughly say are comparable to high tier Longbowmen or the Byzantine Mourtatoi in terms of range, damage, and stakes, whereas the Fanteria Pesante are rather cost effective AP infantry for a roster that is somewhat lacking in AP power. I'd choose Venice's city units over Sicily's, as they get the Huge City level Broken Lance Infantry and Cavalry which are very good for city units, without being too difficult to upkeep.

Genoa is somewhat similar to Venice in that it is situated on the opposite side of north Italy. You also have access to the rich north Italian cities, whereas you will possibly have to deal with France, HRE, Aragon, Venice, and Sicily. I personally do not like late tier Genoese castle units: Genoese crossbowmen cost more per unit and man than their militia counterpart, without having that much of a significant offensive or defensive advantage, castle Feudal Knights and Men at Arms are not unique units by any means and are statistically worse than your high tier city cavalry, and the infantry ends with Men at Arms, Halberd Men at Arms, and Voulgiers which are neither unique units nor all too exceptional. My opinion is that Genoa has the best city roster of all the italian states; it is identical to Venice's except it includes the Huge City tier Genoese Patricians, which man to man can be compared to other top tier western cavalry such as the Polish Guard, Royal Banderium, Gothic Knights, Gendarmes, and Lancers.

TLDR: Sicily has a defensible yet flexible position with powerful melee castle units. Venice sits in a very rich region with many potential enemies and access to the Pesante Fortress units and a very good city roster. Genoa also has access to northern Italy with plenty of potential enemies, and has IMO one of the game's best city rosters.