Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Political view may connect to genes!!

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,615

    Default Political view may connect to genes!!

    Politics is one of the most complex areas of human thought. So when I heard the claim that scanning people's brains could predict political choices, I was naturally sceptical.

    Brain science is achieving extraordinary insights, but mapping what you can measure in a brain scanner on to human social interactions is a huge leap, like trying to find exact correlations between two bowls of soup - only one soup is made from vegetables, macaroni and stock, and the other soup is made up of abstract ideas like economics, equality and history.

    But in the US and in Britain, psychologists and neuroscientists are doing serious research into linking political attitudes to what goes on inside our skulls.

    "By looking at how the brain is processing political phenomena, we can understand a little better why we're doing what we're doing," says Darren Schreiber, of Exeter University.

    He started using fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) while in America, to look at patterns of activity in the brain when people made decisions, especially those involving risk.

    While their decisions weren't all that different, Dr Schreiber saw variation in the parts of the brain that were most active in self-described conservatives and those who called themselves liberal.

    He won't generalise about exactly how conservatives and liberals think, but he does think his work suggests that differing political outlooks reflect deep-seated divergence in how we understand the world.

    Neuroscientist Read Montague, of University College London and Virginia Tech, was sceptical when approached to help political scientists with their research.

    "I laughed them out of the room," he says. But when John Hibbing and his team at the University of Nebraska showed him their data he changed his tune.

    Their studies of twins suggested that political allegiance was partly genetic.

    Not as strongly as height, for example, but enough to suggest that some people really could be dyed-in-the-wool conservatives - or dyed-in-the-DNA, at least.
    Source

    D-does that mean some people are born as default Nazis?
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  2. #2

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    One of the strongest regularities in the empirical political science literature is the well-known correlation in parent and child partisan behavior. Until recently, this phenomenon was thought to result solely from parental socialization, but new evidence on genetic sources of behavior suggests it might also be due to heritability. In this article, the authors hypothesize that genes contribute to variation in a general tendency toward strength of partisanship. Using data collected at the Twins Days Festival, the authors compare the similarity of partisan strength in identical twins who share all of their genes to the similarity of partisan strength in nonidentical twins who share only half of their genes. The results show that heritability accounts for almost half of the variance in strength of partisan attachment, suggesting we should pay closer attention to the role of biology in the expression of important political behaviors.
    http://prq.sagepub.com/content/62/3/601.abstract

    The assumption that the transmission of social behaviors and political preferences is purely cultural has been challenged repeatedly over the last 40 years by the combined evidence of large studies of adult twins and their relatives, adoption studies, and twins reared apart. Variance components and path modeling analyses using data from extended families quantified the overall genetic influence on political attitudes, but few studies haveattempted to localize the parts of the genome which accounted for the heritability estimates found for political preferences. Here, we present the first genome-wide analysis of Conservative-Liberal attitudes from a sample of 13,000 respondents whose DNA was collected in conjunction with a 50-item sociopolitical attitude questionnaire. Several significant linkage peaks were identified and potential candidate genes discussed.
    http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ne&aid=7975084
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #3

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    So will we see obligatory gene therapy in the future if you happen to have been "born with the wrong ideas"? Provided that it's possible, of course, I can imagine some regimes would jump on the wagon immediately.
    Anyway, even if genes might have some influence on what you believe in, I doubt that they're going to completely define it all. At some point they simply have to share influence with upbringing, social influences etc. unless our genes suddenly turn out be completely dictating our entire lives and personalities, which would open a terrible can of worms where you could excuse anything with "sorry, my genes did it".
    Last edited by Tankfriend; May 21, 2014 at 04:48 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankfriend View Post
    Anyway, even if genes might have some influence on what you believe in, I doubt that they're going to completely define it all. At some point they simply have to share influence with upbringing, social influences
    There have been enough studies now to fairly safely say that political positions are at least 43% heritable. Your social environment determines the types of positions and arguments you are exposed to, but your genetic predispositions go a long way in determining which perspectives/arguments you will ultimately find appealing/compelling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    There have been enough studies now to fairly safely say that political positions are at least 43% heritable. Your social environment determines the types of positions and arguments you are exposed to, but your genetic predispositions go a long way in determining which perspectives/arguments you will ultimately find appealing/compelling.
    I'm also going to venture to guess this is very multifactorial. I believe if we had a list of someones personality traits without any knowledge of their voting we would be correct on guessing their political beliefs in a vast majority of the cases. There is only one person I know that I wouldn't be able to predict in this way.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I'm also going to venture to guess this is very multifactorial. I believe if we had a list of someones personality traits without any knowledge of their voting we would be correct on guessing their political beliefs in a vast majority of the cases.
    I agree. It's like those Myers Briggs personality tests where you answer something like 60 questions and then they give you a personality profile that is remarkably accurate in most cases, even though the categories it places you into were just developed through intuition by some psychologists rather than being based on any solid scientific data.

    This is from the study that tries to make associations with specific genes:



    That big peak on Chromosome 4 is NARG1, which codes for N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors associated with cognitive-behavioral performance, working memory, counting behavior, social learning, fear conditioning, spatial learning, motor performance, and social interaction (prosocial, antisocial, and aggressive behaviors). It would have been nice if they published the variants associated with different political positions so I could go around looking at people's DNA to see if it fits. I could probably figure it out myself, but it's more work than I want to do for something I probably couldn't publish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  7. #7

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I could probably figure it out myself, but it's more work than I want to do for something I probably couldn't publish.
    As long as you present it as somehow being "leftwing" as superior genetically it would be published very quickly and most likely get you an interview on MSNBC.

    Obviously you would need to do some serious data manipulation to reach that conclusion, but its not like they would or even could, check your work.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  8. #8
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,615

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankfriend View Post
    Anyway, even if genes might have some influence on what you believe in, I doubt that they're going to completely define it all. At some point they simply have to share influence with upbringing, social influences etc. unless our genes suddenly turn out be completely dictating our entire lives and personalities, which would open a terrible can of worms where you could excuse anything with "sorry, my genes did it".
    Well, but would you support the government to conduct genetic survey of all new borns, find out who is potential "dangerous" elements and impose a life long monitor/political correction education to prevent the child turn into dangerous radical?
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  9. #9

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Well, but would you support the government to conduct genetic survey of all new borns, find out who is potential "dangerous" elements and impose a life long monitor/political correction education to prevent the child turn into dangerous radical?
    Of course I would not support something like that. But then again, I'm just one person, so what does it matter? There's gazillions of people out there who eat empty words like candy without looking into them. And even if you push their noses right into the pile of poo hidden by those words, there's still many who just won't give a .

    And yes, I'm generally pessimistic about humanity, in case you haven't noticed.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    I thought it was obvious personality (and hence political views) was partially ruled by genetics? For example it's quite natural that more egoistical (or "individualistic") personalities will vote differently from those more concerned about other people. They're just pre-programmed biases that have an effect on political opinions.
    Last edited by Nikitn; May 21, 2014 at 07:01 AM.

  11. #11
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rock Hill, SC
    Posts
    16,318
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    So I was born with a hardcore belief in Smithian Economics? Thank Geebus!

  12. #12
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rock Hill, SC
    Posts
    16,318
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Lol, that's like a "The next statment is true: the previous statment is false." sort of a thing.

  13. #13
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Amon Amarth
    Posts
    12,572

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Source

    D-does that mean some people are born as default Nazis?

    Hell, the point here is what we consider "left" or what we consider "right", and this concept is based on the history of a country more than on its genetic ...

    For you, were the Nazis politically on the "right wing"? I have some doubt: The name is National-Socialist-Party, the Nazi state provided public healt care, public schools, social security system, and Nazi Unions, it's a pretty strange "right", seen from an Anglo Saxon perspective!

    On the other hand, the Stalinism ... Do you consider the Communist state of Stalin a "leftist" state? Stalin probably killed more communists, socialists and anarchists than Hitler, in URSS there wasn't any freedom of speech, any freedom to choose the Union because there were only the State Official Stalinist Unions, the social care was very low, the rights of the workers were absolutely not existent ... is this Stalinist model of state, from an Anglo Saxon political perspective, a "leftist" system?

    What are these genetic "left" or "right" you are talking about? Are they corresponding to the definitions of "right" or "left" produced by the Anglo-American world? Are we all born with a genetic Anglo-Saxon-influenced political view? Are you saying that all the human beings, wherever they were born, have an innate political inclination based on some idiotic Anglo Saxon perception of the concepts of "right" and "left"?

    OMG, Hitler, poor man, was better! ... but he lost the war ....

  14. #14
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rock Hill, SC
    Posts
    16,318
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Hitler and Stalin were both Leftists in my view, but that's just me.

  15. #15
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    🏡🐰🐿️🐴🌳
    Posts
    10,897

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Source

    D-does that mean some people are born as default Nazis?
    But Nazi wouldn't exist if there is no Hitler. And Hitler wouldn't be what he was, had he been accepted into the academy of art. Likewise Mao wouldn't be such a monster had he been accepted as a library manager in some university, living a peaceful and dull life.

  16. #16
    saxdude's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    House of Erotic Maneuvering
    Posts
    10,420

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    And doing it the other way around might get you a whole segment on Fox News, they might even finance a book for ya

  17. #17

    Default Re: Political view may connect to genes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    And doing it the other way around might get you a whole segment on Fox News, they might even finance a book for ya
    Kinda like you don't see the problem here Don't worry its genetic, you can't help yourself.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •