How to build a suprior navy for non Christian clans?

[volleyfire]

Hi, my Takeda campaign has been going well on land, taking the entire eastern Japan until RD and all rest clans declared war on me. I was able to fend them off on land with superb Takeda cav but at sea, my fleets are geting pummeled, blocked away in port and chased out to oblivion. Computer usually comes in with hordes of medium bunes and kobayas. I am looking for a way to gain some qualitative superior over my opponenets. Nanban ship is great but I don't want religious unrest in my backyard. So, what are some good ships that I should build into my fleet? Is cannon bune good? But I heard you can only build 2 of them. Should I get heavy bune or siege tower bune? Also is there an end to this RD thing? Does it end when you become shogun? Cuz all my trades are gone after RD and no one would want to come back to the negotiation table, no matter how hard I batter them. Even though my income is 10k+ without any trades, but I would still love to have my trades back.

[richardsharpe]

In my opinion, the best naval strategy is just many massed medium/heavy bune used exclusively for boarding. This way, your navy can be somewhat self sustaining from prizes and as long as you have enough ships you can't really lose...

[Abendstern]

What exactly do you need a fleet for anyway? Disband all of your ships, replace them by more land forces. Let your opponents waste their income. Safest and easiest way to destroy a clans navy is to capture their last settlement. Not that it really mattered, though. (In FOTS of course its all different, because ships can do serious damage to land-based income.)

Without trade partners the trade spots barely sustain the trade ships required. Let alone the naval forces to protect them. The AI on the other hand does not use them to full extend and often is content with parking a single or trade ship or even war ships there.

If you need to cross a sea then a purpose-built single bow kobaya transport can land an entire army. And there always is a port nearby that isnt blockaded when you are playing against AI.

If you still must have naval supremacy then there is only one way to go at it: build lots of ships. Many ships beat fewer ships, thats basically all there is to Shogun 2 naval tactics.

[Rijul.J.Ballal]

Many ships beat fewer ships, thats basically all there is to Shogun 2 naval tactics.

I would like to disagree,but that tactic does have some merit.Try screwing around in the custom battles and see what sort of ships your best at using.There's a Portuguese ship that sails past some times. try capturing that and build up your ports. I don't think you can get trade back.. you are already powerful so i say make the rest of your game a military conquest.

[volleyfire]

I understand the merits of going all out on land, but the issue AIs kept landing sizeable forces in my backyard and my navies are powerless to stop them. So I had to keep a few stack in the back to fend off amphibious landings. Also easter Japan is vast and it takes an army years to traverse such vastness. So I am thinking maybe capturing the blackship and build some cannon bunes can make myself unbeatable in naval battles?

[Diocle]

I understand the merits of going all out on land, but the issue AIs kept landing sizeable forces in my backyard and my navies are powerless to stop them. So I had to keep a few stack in the back to fend off amphibious landings. Also easter Japan is vast and it takes an army years to traverse such vastness. So I am thinking maybe capturing the blackship and build some cannon bunes can make myself unbeatable in naval battles?

Yes you're right it's annoying having idiotic AI forces landing at our backs, but Abendstern is absolutely right: Don't waste your money on ships! It's totally useless, the AI will get always more ships than you because the AI ALWAYS builds the big coalition and you cannot deal with all its ships, it's impossible, sadly this is one of the (infinite) limits of the AI of ANY TW Game! Build land units and kill them all!

[Destin Faroda]

So I am thinking maybe capturing the blackship and build some cannon bunes can make myself unbeatable in naval battles?

Unfortunately, some fool from CA greatly nerfed the cannon damage, so now kanon bunes are not able to sink even kobayas. I've peppered them with cannon salvos and it didn't impress them.
You need to increase the cannon damage to at least 250 (armour piercing) via modding. Then, you will be able to sink wooden ships with cannon balls.

[volleyfire]

Unfortunately, some fool from CA greatly nerfed the cannon damage, so now kanon bunes are not able to sink even kobayas. I've peppered them with cannon salvos and it didn't impress them.
You need to increase the cannon damage to at least 250 (armour piercing) via modding. Then, you will be able to sink wooden ships with cannon balls.

What about black ship? Or they just nerfed all cannon ships? Also between matchlock kobaya and tower bune, which one should I use? Seems tower bune has more rifles than kobaya.

[darlasxm54]

thats basically all there is to Shogun 2 naval tactics.

[waqas850]

thats basically all there is to Shogun 2 naval tactics.

Can we built it with these navals?

[Condottiere 40K]

1. I haven't played Takeda, but it depends on your overall strategy.

2. I've always prioritized gaining control of the trade nodes, so a strong navy was going to be built, the game has a bug that allows teleporting your troops if you have enough ships with unused movement.

3. The Blackship costs a pony to maintain, but a worthwhile investment if only to keep it falling into your rivals hands.

4. Medium bunes are an alright unit, if you can mass them against your opponents.

[Kyotsyu]

Whenever I faced naval enemies I just tried to outnumber them. It usually worked so... more ships = more victories. Never could find much use for big fleets though.

[joshsplosh]

Medium Bune is a great tool if you can utilize it otherwise just spam the cheaper fodder and you shouldn't have any problems.

[Didz]

I agree with Abendstern if as you say the entire of Japan has declared war on you, and so you have no income from sea trade, then you really don't need a navy. I'd save your money and train more cavalry.

[Condottiere 40K]

If you're playing the long game, trade nodes are a very worthwhile investment in ships.

And intercepting an amphibious force at sea removes the need to keep large field forces in the rear.