Gay Parades, Homophobia and a Question for TWC LGTB comunity

[fkizz]

On this thread I intend to adress the issues of homophobia, the perception of homosexuality as a disease by society, and implications, aswell as to ask a question that has bothered me for years about the gay comunity: the gay parades.

One of the biggest struggles of the gay community, (both male and female), is to make people understand that they are normal non diseased people who happen to be homosexual. That is a legit cause and a legit fight that is understandable.

They also form pro gay activism/lobbyism, to defend themselves, in some ways they are striving for their very survival due to some places where homophobia is taken to very violent levels, which is also acceptable.

They also try to find and attack the sources of homophobia, which is also acceptable as their means of self defense.

What I don't get is, why do gays spend so many money and resources and time on organizing gay parades, where they exhibit in public behavior intend to shock, cause distress, and challenge what they see as "heteronormative", by doing all sorts of degenerate activities, like parading around in pink thongs sharing big french kisses for the camera, dressing women clothing with very silly additional clothing details, and all of the sorts shocking behaviour to atract atention.

Well my point is, aren't the gay parades a shoot on their own feet? Assuming homosexuality isn't a disease of the mind, what they show on gay parades helps to reinforce that stereotype, and in quite a way - and then they wonder why people see homosexuals as deviants instead of normal people who happen to be homosexual.

Imagine a different gay parade of normal people in suits doing normal walking and respectable behaviour - passing the message "we are homosexuals and we are normal members of society, even if different in sexuality" instead of making a competition of who can make the lewdest homosexual exhibitionist act in public in front of people that sometimes include elderly and children.

And then they say homophobia comes from church. A more leftist liberal not very anti gay pope appears, and now it's the fault not of the church but of Putin and Russia.

For those who associate Conchita in eurovision 2014 to homosexuality as intended, aren't they again shooting their own foot? By playing the provocateur shocking anti normality role as a means of protagonism and atention, it's as if they are almost accepting that they aren't indeed normal.

Why not instead putting a normal singer who later admits to being gay? Showing that a normal person filling their role in society can be gay instead of putting a drag queen in a short of freak show logic?

Do homosexuals really want to be accepted as normal or do they enjoy their status of deviant? Why don't they do more normality inducing gay parades and activism?

Coment please, and replies from LGTB TWC members apreciated. Just my thoughts on this.

[Himster]

Do homosexuals really want to be accepted as normal or do they enjoy their status of deviant? Why don't they do more normality inducing gay parades and activism?

Both. Not all gay people are the same. Gay people are that: people. Deviants and nut-jobs are among them just as we have deviants among heterosexuals, and that's not a rational basis for generalizations.
There is some confusion amongst a minority of homosexuals that because there are strides towards accepting homosexual behavior that therefore all homosexual behavior should be accepted, hence these displays in parades, it should be noted that not everyone in these parades are going over the top, but when you see a group inside a group misbehaving it's easy to associate the entire group by the activity of the minority.
It's part of the growing pains I think, there used to be a problem with gay parades here in Ireland, but the Gay community (by and large) has grown out of it more or less, gay pride diminishes when the perceived "need" for it diminishes, obviously gay rights is an ongoing battle here, but the zeitgeist of the younger generations here is accepting and tolerant enough that the Gay community doesn't have the knee-jerk reaction, or need to act out their less polite activities in public.

[Taiji]

The more outrageous the stunt, the more people will watch, the more people will talk, the more prevalent idiocy gets championed and challenged.

If it wasn't obvious upon inspection that there's nothing rational about taking exception to homosexuality then it wouldn't work.

[What]

I honestly don't understand this sentiment. It's a parade. People dress up in ridiculous, impractical, even risque outfits during parades. Even nudity isn't that abnormal. Go to the right part of New Orleans during Mardi Gras and women will flash their breasts for beads, yet I've never seen a post here referring to Mardi Gras as a "degenerate activity" or saying that Mardi Gras make people think people from New Orleans are freaks. All the other things you've mentioned are common in many of our cultural traditions as well. If I saw a guy in a pink thong or in women's clothing during a Halloween party, no one would call them a degenerate. They would just find it funny. Yet suddenly when gay men do it, I'm supposed to be up in arms and concerned about it? And you know what? If you don't like it, no one's making you attend. You can close your blinds and sulk about how the gays are ruining their message by dressing up in silly outfits in an event meant for silly outfits in the safety and privacy of your own home if you want. Meanwhile, LGBT people and their advocates can go out and have fun and celebrate the fact that we're slowly evolving into a society where it's okay to be different from the rest of society.

Most importantly, you're missing the point. What you want for gay people is a societal version of "don't ask, don't tell". You're allowed to be gay - but only if you act straight in every possible facet and don't give off the slightest indication you're gay. Once you do, you're fair game to be attacked, insulted, and called degenerates. What the LGBT community is shooting for is "we're here, we're queer, get used to it". That is, people can be abnormal, flamboyant, and quirky, or they can appear 'straight', or they can be somewhere in-between, and it's all okay. The fact is, it shouldn't matter if a man is wearing a dress. If a woman can wear pants and a t-shirt, which were considered male-only for most of human history, why can't a man wear what was once considered clothing for women only? Why can't someone go out in a ridiculous outfit for the fun of it once a year? How are children and the elderly possibly harmed by seeing a man dancing with rainbow boas on a float, especially when they aren't being compelled to attend?

Besides, I can guarantee you none of the people dressing up in ridiculous outfits in the parade dresses up like normally. The fact is, in everyday life, you probably wouldn't be able to tell they're gay. That's the entire point of gay pride parades - so that what's otherwise an invisible, silent minority can come out in force, so that people what a large force they represent in society. It's also to empower people to come to terms with their own sexuality. If I see a gay man dancing around with rainbow boas in public, suddenly it doesn't seem so hard to take the small step of telling those close to me that I'm gay.



Next time I go to a gay pride parade, I'm going in drag, just to spite you. Pics may be posted to TWC, depending on how I'm feeling.

[Sphere]

It is interesting that, at least in the US, the gay-rights movement really didn't get results until it turned towards traditionally conservative goals; marriage, raising children, tax code burdens etc. 'We're here. We're queer get used to our leather assless chaps' wasn't as effective as 'We're Here We'd like to have a mortgage, get married, raise kids and pay taxes'.

In an odd way it was a triumph of conservative values.

[Phier]

It is interesting that, at least in the US, the gay-rights movement really didn't get results until it turned towards traditionally conservative goals; marriage, raising children, tax code burdens etc. 'We're here. We're queer get used to our leather assless chaps' wasn't as effective as 'We're Here We'd like to have a mortgage, get married, raise kids and pay taxes'.

In an odd way it was a triumph of conservative values.

You mean roller skating in rainbow thongs at a parade didn't get them the acceptance they wanted? I think you underestimate the power of the thong good sir!

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Nobody was upset or bothered when Dana International won the Euro for Israel.I think this Conchita would had been OK if he had not got a beard.If he had she had looked like a women and not such a mixture of both sees It may had worked out better.The whole beard thing shows a desire to provoke people or stick it in the face.

We're queer get used to our leather assless chaps'

I was sitting in KFC and a gay march went by and many were wearing these garments and other strange attire at 2 in the afternoon on a Saturday.Lots of kids were on the street with their mothers shopping as it was In Dublin City Center.Some marchers were kissing and had swear words on banners.I did not enjoy the march.Just dress normal and march and It will be great I do not want to see a mans hairy ass while eating a sausage and chips.

[Sphere]

I did not enjoy the march.Just dress normal and march and It will be great I do not want to see a mans hairy ass while eating a sausage and chips.

To each his own.

[Geronimo2006]

A couple of points.

- I don't know whether Conchita is gay or not. But she is LGBT.
- Diversity and deviancy are 2 different things.
- The Church doesn't get to decide (for me at least) what is deviant and what is not.
- Morality needs to be decoupled from (adult consensual) sex and finger-wagging halted. The politics of curtain twitching is increasingly rejected in Western Europe.
- But even from a religious perspective, says "Judge not lest ye be judged" and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
- The Churches spend an inordinate amount of time going on about sex and very little about war, poverty, famine etc. I partocularly refer to the failure of the American Evangelical Churches to condemn the war in Iraq and the falsehoods told about WMD. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbour"?
- I don't agree with naked parades including straight ones. However the Berlin love parade has both.
- Those who ask LGBTs to show modesty should do likewise with respect to their straightness. The things I have seen at weekends outside clubs.

[Dracula]

The op has a point. Allthough it doesn't see there are so little normal things left that even gays are spoiled, in the common situation of craziness.

[Col. Tartleton]

I just don't like parades. I couldn't give a damn why they're parading.

And for the sake of decency, the reason chaps don't have an ass is because you're supposed to wear jeans under them. They're not pants. They are to pants what a coat is to a shirt.

[Mayer]

- I don't know whether Conchita is gay or not. But she is LGBT.

Thomas Neuwirth aka 'Conchita Wurst' is recorded for homosexuality beginning in youth age

- Those who ask LGBTs to show modesty should do likewise with respect to their straightness. The things I have seen at weekends outside clubs.

I think society has surpassed the point of modesty a long time ago. It can only be reversed by collapse

[Condottiere 40K]

Same reason they want to get married in Church, they seek social acceptance, not tolerance.

[Geronimo2006]

Same reason they want to get married in Church, they seek social acceptance, not tolerance.

In my experience talking to gay men many of them (in Ireland at least) don't go to Church anymore because of the institution's homophobia. I saw a survey a few years ago of Irish gay middle aged men some years ago and it backed that up. It';s hard to believe in an institution that calls you "disordered". It's frankly insulting. I think what's disordered is the Vatican gagging order telling bishops not to report abuse claims to the police under Pope John Paul II by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which was then controlled by Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict). It seems that to be called "disordered" in my Church, you have to be sleeping with adults.

[Himster]

Same reason they want to get married in Church, they seek social acceptance, not tolerance.

They shouldn't be able o force churches to marry them any more than churches should be able to force them to not be able to get married.

[Geronimo2006]

They shouldn't be able o force churches to marry them any more than churches should be able to force them to not be able to get married.

I've never heard of anyone proposing this? I think the Churches have exemptions from this at least in the UK.

You shouldn't be able to force out a CEO who in his private capacity practiced his freedom of expression by contributing to a political cause.

I have some sympathy with that argument. On the other hand many of his customers were offended by his position and the board had a right to bear that in mind, along with the possible impact of boycotts not only from LGBTs, but liberals.

[Adar]

I think many people underestimate how many homosexuals and bisexuals that live a normal life without being noticed.

Personally I know quite a lot of people who are gay or bisexual but I generally avoid RFSL (gay rights organisation in Sweden) and queer theorists.

[Dracula]

With Titch Jones being irish, how pitifull ...

[Condottiere 40K]

You shouldn't be able to force out a CEO who in his private capacity practiced his freedom of expression by contributing to a political cause.

[the_mango55]

You shouldn't be able to force out a CEO who in his private capacity practiced his freedom of expression by contributing to a political cause.

I'm sure this is in reference to some current event I'm not familiar with.

But in this example, who is "you"?

If "you" is the government, that statement is entirely correct. If "you" is the board/shareholders, then they should be able to force out a CEO for whatever they want.