Useless slingers

[FEARLESS]

I am slowly losing patience with his game. The diplomacy completely broke down on turn 98 (see 'confused' forum) and now 400 slingers with lead shot kill 1 charging horseman who proceeds to decimate my slingers!. C'mon this is bl--dy ridiculous is this what I'm going to get with DEI 9 when it's released cos' if it is I am going back to vanilla!!. I luv this mod but sometimes it leaves me speechless with the crazy outcomes!. I'm at the moment reading the Simon Scarrow books on the roman legion and sling shot was devastating to the legions!!. They were scared shitleess of it but here in the game it ain't worth the money!

[KAM 2150]

You know that Scarrow is novelist, not a historian, do you? I have all his books, they are good entertainment but they are not the most reliable sources if you want to discuss realism

[A_I]

kam Simon Scarrow i lecturer of history.

And in books he wrote that note about witch historican reserches he use it... and on what he depand for example Peter conolly, chester starr.

Than pls educate in this metter...

[Butan]

Does the horsemen were wounded or with low armor?
If not, you're going to need a few more volleys than just one.

Most units with higher than 30 armour are going to need at least 2-3 volleys of lead to suffer casualties. I agree its not perfectly realistic but DeI balance is a flimsy thing: atm I find it especially fine.

[A_I]

I agree with FEARLESS in this metter... some thing need to be polished... that`s all...

[antred]

That's just Rome 2's damage model. Against even moderately armored units, all missile weapons initially generate low casualties, and that only begins to change after a few volleys.

P.S. You didn't seriously expect a unit of slingers (without protection from nearby melee / spear inf. or cav.) to come out on top against a cavalry charge, did you?

[Matmannen]

Use slingers against units unprotected by shields or shot where the shield can't protect them. The slingers an't meant to rack up kills, but to tear slowly through armor, weakening certain enemy units for decimating cavalry/infantry charges. Or you can try and decimate an enemy unit with only slingers, though it will be a waste of ammo...

These slinngers arn't the rifle slingers of vanilla, basically Learn2Play...

[Ano2]

Always put your missile troops on the left it will increase casualties against shielded opponents.

[rjacko10]

I use slingers to take down other skirmishing units with low armour. Elsewise they will only 'hurt' soldiers with armour, rarely killing. This is because they have 0 armour penetration damage.

The advantages are in the range, reload speed and high ammo reserves. Think about how to get the most out of these units. Do not expose them!

[Matmannen]

I use slingers to take down other skirmishing units with low armour. Elsewise they will only 'hurt' soldiers with armour, rarely killing. This is because they have 0 armour penetration damage.

The advantages are in the range, reload speed and high ammo reserves. Think about how to get the most out of these units. Do not expose them!

Eh, you are wrong there actually. Slingers have low damage but good armor penetration, this is how it goes in DeI:

Javlins:
Godly Damage
Godly Armor pen.
Low fire rate
Short Range
Inaccurate

Bowmen:
Good Damage
Terrible Armor pen.
Medium fire rate
Long distance
Fairly good accuracy
Can shoot arrows in an arc over other soldiers

Slingers;
Terrible Damage
Good armor pen.
High fire rate
Very long distance
Very good accuracy

[rjacko10]

Eh, you are wrong there actually. Slingers have low damage but good armor penetration, this is how it goes in DeI:

Sorry Matmannen but you are wrong, please check out the stats in the game. Slingers have no armour penetration damage. And this is how it should be - because a stone etc cannot and should not penetrate armour. The weight of these projectiles are just too small.

This is why they are great against units with little armour, such as skirmishers. Otherwise they are really only useful for a small moral penalty and distractions.

[dowdpride]

While I agree that the damage of a sling shot should be lower than an arrow and especially a javelin, its still a chunk of rock (or worse, a slug of lead) coming at you at incredible speeds. It should do a bit more damage.

[rjacko10]

While I agree that the damage of a sling shot should be lower than an arrow and especially a javelin, its still a chunk of rock (or worse, a slug of lead) coming at you at incredible speeds. It should do a bit more damage.

You say a chunk of rock, but really to generate such distance it would need to be a relatively small "chuck of rock", like a stone. A stone can be easily deflected with a shield, whatever the speed, no problem. And with decent armour I reckon it would just serve to p1ss the enemy off.

For lightly armoured units however then we should expect to see the casualties racking up fairly quickly.

I believe DeI has it spot on at the moment.

[dowdpride]

You say a chunk of rock, but really to generate such distance it would need to be a relatively small "chuck of rock", like a stone. A stone can be easily deflected with a shield, whatever the speed, no problem. And with decent armour I reckon it would just serve to p1ss the enemy off.

For lightly armoured units however then we should expect to see the casualties racking up fairly quickly.

I believe DeI has it spot on at the moment.

It really depends on several factors, that being the size of the rock, the thickness of the armour, and how close the target is to the attacker. An average sling shot at close range hitting someone in the side of the helmet will cause significant internal injuries. Long distance not so much. The reason why a sling should have an ap value is the same as why a hammer should get an ap value: The blunt force trauma that would go through the armour.

[Matmannen]

It really depends on several factors, that being the size of the rock, the thickness of the armour, and how close the target is to the attacker. An average sling shot at close range hitting someone in the side of the helmet will cause significant internal injuries. Long distance not so much. The reason why a sling should have an ap value is the same as why a hammer should get an ap value: The blunt force trauma that would go through the armour.

Exactly, this is why armored knights would use maces and axes when fighting other armored opponents.

[Monglor]

Exactly, this is why armored knights would use maces and axes when fighting other armored opponents.

Big difference though is that a mace has weight to it. The energy connecting to the target is mass x velocity. So when you've got a knight swinging a good couple of kilos of metal mace and putting much of his own weight into it, that's a serious bit of blunt trauma. The shot from a sling is very light, and sure it's going very fast, but it's not got anything like the impact power of a mace.

[corsair831]

slingers aren't useless at all, i've played a lot of multiplayer campaigns and they're really really really bloody effective if you get 3 or 4 units all targetting the same unit, especially if the unit is engaged or on a flank

not to mention, they absolutely wreck poorly armoured troops like javelin throwers, light cavalry (if they're given an opportunity to shoot a bit), light infantry if they're not well shielded

my slingers often get 200+ kills in battles when i use them correctly (obviously if i don't, they get squat)

[FEARLESS]

I always envisaged that slingers with lead shot are going to do some serious damage. If they didn't why use them? why in ancient times have slingers when the damage they did was negligible. do you see my point?

[Ritmas]

I always envisaged that slingers with lead shot are going to do some serious damage. If they didn't why use them? why in ancient times have slingers when the damage they did was negligible. do you see my point?

Because they were cheap, avivable everywhere, not much training needed, good way to tire their enemy etc...

[KAM 2150]

Also what slingers did you had there? Not all of them used lead shots, which is not the case if you used elite slingers like Balearic ones.