Ancient Battle Realism submod bubba777 revamp compatible with DEI 0.96b 27/09/2014 update release

[FieryMastermind]

No need, just tried it and it does indeed work! And with the matched combat begone mod this game is truly brilliant!

[mightygrim]

great mod it was driving me nuts watching units charge slow motion

[Durador]

On what battle difficult do you guys play this submod?

[bubba 777]

On what battle difficult do you guys play this submod?

im using H/H and playing with trapezes with the all faction pack and its a challenge but not to hard

[Lt.Chris]

May need to take another look at the cav speeds, it may be a tad too slow

[bubba 777]

May need to take another look at the cav speeds, it may be a tad too slow

I did have the feeling it mite be a little bit to slow especially for the heavy cav,I have also been thinking of upping projectile damage +1

[Durador]

Its a good mod! just played a few battle's. but the cav are really to slow

[bubba 777]

Its a good mod! just played a few battle's. but the cav are really to slow

thankyou Durador,are you using revision 1 ?

[Durador]

I downloaded it yesterday morning. So i don't think I have the revision 1 will check it out tonight.

[Durador]

The revision did make the cav speed much better! The only thing i noticed is that the killrate is very slow. Dont get me wrong i dont want them to drop like flies.
But i think it could be just a bit faster.

Edit:My battle's where spear vs spear units but also cav vs spear.

[Creslin49]

I like the morale changes and being able to actually use flanking and all that but I think you should take a look at how good hoplites are in this mod. I did a custom battle of a cohors aquilia with 400 men vs a basic 4 initiative hoplite unit and the hoplites killed like 4 legos for every loss they took and that was with a loose formation to take advantage of some flanking. With deadliness removed it seems like those high initiative units have no counter and become pretty much gods against units with no initiative.

[bubba 777]

I like the morale changes and being able to actually use flanking and all that but I think you should take a look at how good hoplites are in this mod. I did a custom battle of a cohors aquilia with 400 men vs a basic 4 initiative hoplite unit and the hoplites killed like 4 legos for every loss they took and that was with a loose formation to take advantage of some flanking. With deadliness removed it seems like those high initiative units have no counter and become pretty much gods against units with no initiative.

you have a point,i think I removed or lowered the pike deadliness because they was over killing as with bonus vs large for projectiles and spears and it was causing overkill.i will look into it,i'll do some testing with deadliness completely removed for all weapons and see how it goes
the more flat and consistant I keep states on the tables the better balanced the units feel

[Summary]

I like the morale changes and being able to actually use flanking and all that but I think you should take a look at how good hoplites are in this mod. I did a custom battle of a cohors aquilia with 400 men vs a basic 4 initiative hoplite unit and the hoplites killed like 4 legos for every loss they took and that was with a loose formation to take advantage of some flanking. With deadliness removed it seems like those high initiative units have no counter and become pretty much gods against units with no initiative.

Legionaries in loose formation shouldn't beat a hoplite phalanx or a pike phalanx. Against a phalanx unit a legionary unit in a head-on contest will be at a serious disadvantage, loose or tight formation. The Romans beat the phalanx because their manipular formation (setup of the entire army and not one cohort) was extremely flexible. They could easily break off and re-create a line in a manner no army let alone the phalanx could. A phalanx once in formation they could not break out of it easily, and once out of phalanx formation they could not re-form the phalanx in battle. In short, the responsiveness of the phalanx is its major weakness. This lack of responsiveness allows its flanks to be easily exploited by a more flexible or mobile formation (again not a single individual unit but a formation).

The way it should work is that in a head-on contest any melee infantry will loose to a phalanx, but if the general is smart enough to lure the phalanx into what seemingly would be a frontal confrontation, while simultaneously order a unit to flank around, then that would result in a huge disaster for the phalanx as was evident in history. Phalanx also moved a lot slower, so it was easier to manipulate and lure them into traps like these.

Balance would be a legion > phalanx or even a phalanx > legion. Balance would be a legion and phalanx can both win depending on the situation and positioning and expertise of the general and his ability to maneuver and initiate the fight on his terms.

If a phalanx is attacked in the rear or the flank, (the game registers this effect), it should break the formation, hence the phalanx automatically loses its formation and the bonuses there off (i.e. defense will be severely reduced and attack will be moderately increased as secondary weapon will be employed, morale will be heavily shattered). However, if the phalanx isn't flanked the formation holds and defense will be heavily boosted, attack will be moderately boosted and morale will increase steadily with the passing of time. If this can be achieved then a true balance between melee infantry and phalanx will be achieved.

It will place emphasis on Hellenic armies to maintain their formation and prevent from being flanked, while it will place importance on melee infantry factions like Rome and the Barbarians to outflanked and outmaneuver the phalanx and exploit their actual weakness.

Balance would be every unit has the potential to win or lose against any unit based on how they are utilized.
When comparing equipment, Hoplite had superior shield and weapon compared to the legion, but the legion had superior armor compared to the hoplite. Hoplite shield and weapon worked best in a formation and attacking and defending in unison, Romans emphasized on lighter shields, but superior flexible armor, allow them to move around quicker. The hoplite is a tank, the legionary is a trooper. A tank can gun a troop down easily if he is within range, but the trooper is nimbler and can approach the tank tactfully open the hatch and drop a grenade into it.

To many people watch Gladiator, which is extremely good movie, but has A LOT of inaccuracies. In the first battle against Germania, there were no surrrenderers, no rout, everyone basically fought and died on that battlefield *lol*. The gladiator thumbs up (pointing towards the neck) meant kill, thumbs down meant lower your weapon and let him live. Other inaccuracies include the legionary forming a testudo instantly when they notice archers unleashing a volley. In a battle archers would unleash volleys continuously, and infantry would approach in testudo formation to minimize casualties, they wouldn't form a testudo within the time it takes from a arrow leaving a bow and approaching them.

[eferos93]

Hi. I have to report that the submod work no more with the new rome 2 update.

[bubba 777]

Hi. I have to report that the submod work no more with the new rome 2 update.

it all fixed

[kruma]

Thank you bubba for this mod. I am just wondering which download link contains the latest version.. In fact I am interested in the one with fastest cavalry I think you may still increase final charge speeds for both cavalry and infantry. Also I do not find much difference in speeds between light and heavy infantry, is it intentional?

[dougie j]

Hello,

Love the sound of the mod and what its trying to do, i haven't actually installed yet and had one quick question.

How does the current version compare to the mod video on kill rates ? don't get me wrong i am not hung up on kill rates i do understand what the mod is about.
My point is that when you are viewing a large engagement it would give a better battle feel if you could see a few casualties as a result, it would make you feel that the actual fighting was not a complete irrelevance and all the hard work of your boys was having some effect ? if you see what i mean.

Cheers DJ

[bubba 777]

Hello,

Love the sound of the mod and what its trying to do, i haven't actually installed yet and had one quick question.

How does the current version compare to the mod video on kill rates ? don't get me wrong i am not hung up on kill rates i do understand what the mod is about.
My point is that when you are viewing a large engagement it would give a better battle feel if you could see a few casualties as a result, it would make you feel that the actual fighting was not a complete irrelevance and all the hard work of your boys was having some effect ? if you see what i mean.

Cheers DJ

the difference from the video is massive,kill rate was increased and a lot off rebalancing and un-nurfing has been done.you wont know until you try it

[dougie j]

the difference from the video is massive,kill rate was increased and a lot off rebalancing and un-nurfing has been done.you wont know until you try it

Sounds excellent thanks, i will now definitely install the mod

[Tenerife_Boy]

Gonna try this sub mod....pikes I think in DeI are too slow in killing rates. I prefer it more like vanila one. Steamrolling.