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Thread: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

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  1. #1

    Default EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    At the moment the EU and the US are negotiating a trade deal, that will most likely change ie. fairly strict EU regulations concerning the distribution of geneticaly modified food to consumers and the ability of corporations to sue/influence the EU (and thus any of it's members). See below quotes.

    I personally reject the idea of the TTIP (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership), as it would undermine European standards. Even if it would ad a >1.5% of growth to the overall EU GDP, having to accept American standards in food produtcion, financial regulations etc. isn't acceptable to me.


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...orations-take:

    Last month, the Financial Times reported that the US is using these negotiations "to push for a fundamental change in the way business regulations are drafted in the EU to allow business groups greater input earlier in the process".
    But this is not all that democracy must give so that corporations can take. The most dangerous aspect of the talks is the insistence on both sides on a mechanism called investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS). ISDS allows corporations to sue governments at offshore arbitration panels of corporate lawyers, bypassing domestic courts.
    And still there remains that howling absence: a credible explanation of why ISDS is necessary. As Kenneth Clarke, the British minister promoting the TTIP, admits: "It was designed to support businesses investing in countries where the rule of law is unpredictable, to say the least." So what is it doing in a US-EU treaty? A report commissioned by the UK government found that ISDS "is highly unlikely to encourage investment" and is "likely to provide the UK with few or no benefits". But it could allow corporations on both sides of the ocean to sue the living daylights out of governments that stand in their way.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-on-democracy:

    The purpose of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is to remove the regulatory differences between the US and European nations. I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago. But I left out the most important issue: the remarkable ability it would grant big business to sue the living daylights out of governments which try to defend their citizens. It would allow a secretive panel of corporate lawyers to overrule the will of parliament and destroy our legal protections. Yet the defenders of our sovereignty say nothing.
    The Australian government, after massive debates in and out of parliament, decided that cigarettes should be sold in plain packets, marked only with shocking health warnings. The decision was validated by the Australian supreme court. But, using a trade agreement Australia struck with Hong Kong, the tobacco company Philip Morris has asked an offshore tribunal to award it a vast sum in compensation for the loss of what it calls its intellectual property.
    In Canada, the courts revoked two patents owned by the American drugs firm Eli Lilly, on the grounds that the company had not produced enough evidence that they had the beneficial effects it claimed. Eli Lilly is now suing the Canadian government for $500m, and demanding that Canada's patent laws are changed.

    These companies (along with hundreds of others) are using the investor-state dispute rules embedded in trade treaties signed by the countries they are suing. The rules are enforced by panels which have none of the safeguards we expect in our own courts. The hearings are held in secret. The judges are corporate lawyers, many of whom work for companies of the kind whose cases they hear.
    You don't believe it? Here's what one of the judges on these tribunals says about his work. "When I wake up at night and think about arbitration, it never ceases to amaze me that sovereign states have agreed to investment arbitration at all ... Three private individuals are entrusted with the power to review, without any restriction or appeal procedure, all actions of the government, all decisions of the courts, and all laws and regulations emanating from parliament."

  2. #2

    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    sooner or later we get what we deserve. If we do not take our governments in the butt, so the politicians will awake.
    But I think that it is already too late. Most people understand not at all what the corporations, banks and governments do to us.

  3. #3

    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amalric View Post
    sooner or later we get what we deserve. If we do not take our governments in the butt, so the politicians will awake.
    But I think that it is already too late. Most people understand not at all what the corporations, banks and governments do to us.

    yeah I fear it's too late. The European politicians have sold us out again. I can understand why more and more people vote nationalistic/Anti European parties.

    Corporations rule the world.

  4. #4

    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    I share your concerns that, lobby groups founded by corporations undermine democratic procedures. At least I guess, that's what you are referring to.

  5. #5
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Tactician View Post
    I share your concerns that, lobby groups founded by corporations undermine democratic procedures. At least I guess, that's what you are referring to.
    Corporations are people too. If you don't believe me go visit one. There are all kinds of people walking around.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  6. #6

    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    I'm not sure how we ended up in this current situation, but I fear for the world in which my grandchildren will grow up. But like Amalric says, short of a global - and bloody revolution - what can we do? It feels as if the battle was lost long ago and now we are just seeing the aftermath.

  7. #7
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Free trade and closer ties means more opportunities for small business.

    Stop EU regulation? Hooray.

  8. #8
    sabaku_no_gaara's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Free trade and closer ties means more opportunities for small business.

    Stop EU regulation? Hooray.
    yes, to hell with health issues, public safety etc... freedom for those who's raison d'etre is exploitation for self gain

    I hear coca cola is finally taking the cancer inducing stuff out of their sports drink (in some states), you know, the stuff that is already forbidden here.

  9. #9
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by sabaku_no_gaara View Post
    yes, to hell with health issues, public safety etc... freedom for those who's raison d'etre is exploitation for self gain

    I hear coca cola is finally taking the cancer inducing stuff out of their sports drink (in some states), you know, the stuff that is already forbidden here.
    Because americans are dying in droves compared to the EU!!!!

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    sabaku_no_gaara's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Because americans are dying in droves compared to the EU!!!!
    I have shares in a company selling cancer tests in America, I want as many people in the us to get colon and/or prostate cancer as possible, I did the math on odds for those cancers in the us and potential revenue, those numbres where huge. So please, put whatever you want in you cola. freedom, burgers, cola and the American way baby! I'm all for it as long as it stays oversees. you'll make me a nice amount of money in the long run.


    As for Europe I like our tight regulation, and our governments not being 100% in lobbyists pockets

  11. #11
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by sabaku_no_gaara View Post
    our governments not being 100% in lobbyists pockets

    That's a laugh.
    I believe this is a very good thing. Also, I cannot see why people have a problem with genetically modified foods; they've been eating them for centuries.



  12. #12

    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Free trade and closer ties means more opportunities for small business.

    Stop EU regulation? Hooray.

    that's right who cares how many die because of toxic crap being pumped into food, water and the air, unsafe medicines, and labels you cannot trust.
    Last edited by justicar5; May 07, 2014 at 12:07 PM.

  13. #13
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    that's right who cares how many die because of toxic crap being pumped into food, water and the air, unsafe medicines, and labels you cannot trust.
    How many people have died in America from the horrible toxic food that us Americans apparently ingest on a daily basis with no harmful effects?

  14. #14

    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    How many people have died in America from the horrible toxic food that us Americans apparently ingest on a daily basis with no harmful effects?

    The lead paint in toys that you guys did not catch for a start, far greater infiltration of GMO without proper labelling, putting corn syrup in damn near everything,

  15. #15
    Slydessertfox's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    The lead paint in toys that you guys did not catch for a start, far greater infiltration of GMO without proper labelling, putting corn syrup in damn near everything,
    Corn syrup is no worse than sugar-which is a major problem in and of itself but still.

    Also, it really irks me, this crusade my side (the left) is on against GMO's. We've been eating GMO's quite literally since the day we first domesticated plants.

  16. #16
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    that's right who cares how many die because of toxic crap being pumped into food, water and the air, unsafe medicines, and labels you cannot trust.
    ​I guess I might be a zombie, because I've been eating that stuff, drinking that stuff, swallowing that stuff, and buying from those labels for almost two decades.



  17. #17

    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by ☩Lord Inquisitor Derpy Hooves☩ View Post
    ​I guess I might be a zombie, because I've been eating that stuff, drinking that stuff, swallowing that stuff, and buying from those labels for almost two decades.
    You just dont know it yourself.

    On the topic, why do electronics and computer hardware cost a fortune in Europe?

  18. #18
    King Gambrinus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Free trade and closer ties means more opportunities for small business.

    Stop EU regulation? Hooray.
    No, small business is not helped by this, Denny.

    The success of a small business is reliant on a gradual increase in demand. That is the priority of the small businessmean. He'll even take a loss at first if it means his customers will flock to his business rather than a multinational or other competitor. How do we increase demand across the whole sector then, Denny? By adhering to American wage and price standards? By destroying the model that made Germany so successful? Ridiculous. This does not help small business at all. As if they give a about the other side of the pond when they have their start-up...

    These measures were lobbied by big business, because they have the means to take their business over the Antlantic. In return we will get lower wages, lower working standards and become increasingly part of a ''Western'' culture I do not adhere to.

    The idea of Europe was not invented by Robert Schumann or other liberal-conservative economists. Its original idea in the 20th century was to creat a 4th big power in pre-war Europe to ensure that our sovereignty was not threatened by the USA, the British Empire and the USSR. We should revive this idea again. Europe should be used as a tool to counter America's hegemony rather than become assimilated to their horrific ideology.
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  19. #19
    Durnaug's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Free trade and closer ties means more opportunities for small business.

    Stop EU regulation? Hooray.
    If it helps small businesses. Then yes.

    If it is a supranational piece of corporate welfare, then no.

  20. #20
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: EU-US Trade Deal - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnaug View Post
    If it helps small businesses. Then yes.

    If it is a supranational piece of corporate welfare, then no.
    Potentially, it can hurt both and help both. It all depends on which industries in the US benefit from free trade with the EU, and which industries in the EU benefit from free trade with the US. Actually, I would say that there is potential for new job creation since new businesses would very likely start up because of better opportunities.



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