Constantine: Rise of Christianity - Future Plans, Previews and Historical Discussions

[juanplay]

Everything is looking good with this mod, have they mod creators thought of asking the Invasio barbarorum: Restitutor orbis team for their models? it would be a great adition given that such mod takes place just 40 years behind this one.

[Ahiga]

Not to denigrate the fantastic work of Invasio Barbarorum (easily with the kind of reputation for detail to call them the masters of late antiquity), but I am not sure if the models limited in creation by the older R1 engine would look suitable ported into R2 (course, if they were working without the limits of the R1 engine they'd put me out of a job with how great their stuff would be!). I've definitely looked to them for inspiration and ideas in terms of texturing and most certainly with regards to research, so we've got to give them due credit there. But in terms of weapon or helmet models I think the difference of R1 and R2's engines is too great.

[juanplay]

Not to denigrate the fantastic work of Invasio Barbarorum (easily with the kind of reputation for detail to call them the masters of late antiquity), but I am not sure if the models limited in creation by the older R1 engine would look suitable ported into R2 (course, if they were working without the limits of the R1 engine they'd put me out of a job with how great their stuff would be!). I've definitely looked to them for inspiration and ideas in terms of texturing and most certainly with regards to research, so we've got to give them due credit there. But in terms of weapon or helmet models I think the difference of R1 and R2's engines is too great.

.

Thanks for your answer, i thought for a second models and textures were done with a program regardless of the Rome engine and then exported to the game (with the correspondent graphic reduction)

[Causeless]

They ARE done in a separate tool, but if you were to import them into Rome 2 they wouldn't automatically become beautiful. No variations for different shields or armour are set up and the models are low poly and designed for an older game so they wouldn't look all that great either way. Don't get me wrong, they are great models, but they were working under limitations which Rome 2 doesn't have.

[Timhawk]

Just a thought I was having the other day. It'd be cool if the roman factions could start with some old school Auxilia Cohors and Alae (possible borrowed Don Diego's pack ? and modified to reflect current equipments ?) alongside the various Legions, including some fairly high quality ones. But the player wouldn't be able to recruit them anymore, so that we'd have to be careful not loosing them.

That could include some generic cohors and alae without specific names and number.
However it'd be cool if you could also include some regiments (a dozen maybe across the empire or even half a dozen) that we know where still in existence circa 300 with their full name and number.
A good example would be to find Ala Augusta Gallorum Petriana c.R. in Britain
Maybe the Cohors IX Batavorum eq in Noricum.
The I Italica voluntariorum c.R. eq in Cappadocia etc.

Hell I'd be happy to go through various docs and find some good candidates if you think the idea is sound.

[Ahiga]

They will be able to recruit Alae and Auxilia cohors - it appears even as late as a mid 4th century expedition to Britain (By Julian or someone else I am forgetting) they were recruiting new Auxilia cohors and legions. In terms of equipment they won't be using old school stuff as from what I have gathered the last Imperial gallic helmet discovered is dated to the mid 3rd century - not 'impossibly' that it could still be used circa 306AD, but I'm inclined against it. For sake of simplification, as of right now the Auxilia and Alae will be the lower quality troops available to the Romans - don't think 'levy', think 'hastati'. The problem being this period did not have an absolute division of Limitanei and Comitatenses, so we have to depict the Auxilia, the Legiones of the Frontier, and the proto-Comitatenses Legiones emerging in the Tetrarchy (Lanciarii, Herculiani, Ioviani, ect), and I wouldn't want to worry about having 4 different Auxilia (2 with armor, 2 without, 2 with spear and 2 with sword). So Auxilia are half-armored half-unarmored and low but solid quality, (frontier) legiones are your workhorses, the Proto-Comitatenses are like Evocati Cohorts or Veteran legionaries or Triarii, and the Praetorians are your Extraordinarii/Praetorians.

As of right now I'm not down for depicting the litany of possible specific regiments because it'll be added work when there's already plenty more to work on. This isn't as bad as it sounds because I believe long to the times of the Tetrarchy legiones had ceased to be taken wholesale and used wholesale - rather portions would be taken from the frontier regiments and coalesced into the ad-hoc army for a campaign. So this facilitates the use of multiple shield emblems in a single legionary unit (and the lack of a specific regimental name). In the future that's a possibility, especially with your generous offer to do the research for us. For now if you can identify the location and emblem (via the Notitia Digitatum) of particular legiones, I can see about having those emblems incorporated into a respective unit: Each of the four Emperors' Frontier legionary and Comitatenses units (and presumably some of the cavalry) will have a specific set of shield decorum to help distinguish them. So in other words Maxentius' Legionary Comitatenses will use Ioviani and Herculiani shield emblems, while Constantine's will use Chi-Rhos mixed with some generic emblems and some of the future auxilia palatina.

However besides Chi-Rhos and the Ioviani/herculiani, I'm just doing emblems I find look cool and are possible to depict - so I will be sure to get some wrong (like an Armenian legionary's emblem used by maxentius, or the emperor in the east using an emblem from a Spanish legion). So feel free to correct us after release.

[Causeless]

I'm so happy that finally proper roman era troops are being added. Once there is a version with new roman units and balancing similar to DeI, I'll definitely download. Are you planning any naval overhaul with historical ships from the time? I'm unaware of how naval combat changed over time historically, so it might be the same - just asking!

[Ahiga]

I haven't looked into it but a very cursory glance suggests it'd be much the same as late classical era (0 AD-ish), quinquiremes and such. It's pretty much just mare nostrum, although apparently the crises of the 3rd century left the navy in bad shape that it was scrapped together for the tetrarchy civil wars.

If any modelers are reading this and are amenable to help us out, it'd be great to get this tall conical ridge helmet done. I've tried to jury-rig a suitable reference but to no avail. Was working on cataphract armor/equipping and could use the helmet. Don't worry about the ribbon/plume, and I wouldn't worry about the aventail/coif as I can grab one from a M&B:W OSP. It's just the conical ridge helmet part that I need.

[Dresden]

I work with Grudge on some other mods, maybe he would be interested in helping with a few models on this one. When I get a chance I can ask him (he is pretty busy atm I think though).

[Timhawk]

As of right now I'm not down for depicting the litany of possible specific regiments because it'll be added work when there's already plenty more to work on. This isn't as bad as it sounds because I believe long to the times of the Tetrarchy legiones had ceased to be taken wholesale and used wholesale - rather portions would be taken from the frontier regiments and coalesced into the ad-hoc army for a campaign. So this facilitates the use of multiple shield emblems in a single legionary unit (and the lack of a specific regimental name).

Nah you're right. No point in adding fancy units now if you can't get the balance and all just right in the first place.

In the future that's a possibility, especially with your generous offer to do the research for us. For now if you can identify the location and emblem (via the Notitia Digitatum) of particular legiones, I can see about having those emblems incorporated into a respective unit: Each of the four Emperors' Frontier legionary and Comitatenses units (and presumably some of the cavalry) will have a specific set of shield decorum to help distinguish them. So in other words Maxentius' Legionary Comitatenses will use Ioviani and Herculiani shield emblems, while Constantine's will use Chi-Rhos mixed with some generic emblems and some of the future auxilia palatina.

I can get started on that next week and see how it goes.

[SacredBoltgun]

They will be able to recruit Alae and Auxilia cohors - it appears even as late as a mid 4th century expedition to Britain (By Julian or someone else I am forgetting) they were recruiting new Auxilia cohors and legions. In terms of equipment they won't be using old school stuff as from what I have gathered the last Imperial gallic helmet discovered is dated to the mid 3rd century - not 'impossibly' that it could still be used circa 306AD, but I'm inclined against it. For sake of simplification, as of right now the Auxilia and Alae will be the lower quality troops available to the Romans - don't think 'levy', think 'hastati'. The problem being this period did not have an absolute division of Limitanei and Comitatenses, so we have to depict the Auxilia, the Legiones of the Frontier, and the proto-Comitatenses Legiones emerging in the Tetrarchy (Lanciarii, Herculiani, Ioviani, ect), and I wouldn't want to worry about having 4 different Auxilia (2 with armor, 2 without, 2 with spear and 2 with sword). So Auxilia are half-armored half-unarmored and low but solid quality, (frontier) legiones are your workhorses, the Proto-Comitatenses are like Evocati Cohorts or Veteran legionaries or Triarii, and the Praetorians are your Extraordinarii/Praetorians.

As of right now I'm not down for depicting the litany of possible specific regiments because it'll be added work when there's already plenty more to work on. This isn't as bad as it sounds because I believe long to the times of the Tetrarchy legiones had ceased to be taken wholesale and used wholesale - rather portions would be taken from the frontier regiments and coalesced into the ad-hoc army for a campaign. So this facilitates the use of multiple shield emblems in a single legionary unit (and the lack of a specific regimental name). In the future that's a possibility, especially with your generous offer to do the research for us. For now if you can identify the location and emblem (via the Notitia Digitatum) of particular legiones, I can see about having those emblems incorporated into a respective unit: Each of the four Emperors' Frontier legionary and Comitatenses units (and presumably some of the cavalry) will have a specific set of shield decorum to help distinguish them. So in other words Maxentius' Legionary Comitatenses will use Ioviani and Herculiani shield emblems, while Constantine's will use Chi-Rhos mixed with some generic emblems and some of the future auxilia palatina.

However besides Chi-Rhos and the Ioviani/herculiani, I'm just doing emblems I find look cool and are possible to depict - so I will be sure to get some wrong (like an Armenian legionary's emblem used by maxentius, or the emperor in the east using an emblem from a Spanish legion). So feel free to correct us after release.

Holy mother of mercy, they are perfect, can´t wait for the new roman skins!

[Ahiga]

Still a work in progress. Need to do some scale corselets that can be worn atop the mail, maybe do another lamellar pattern since that one was shamelessly stolen from the saka texture in R2, and see if I can't make a higher rez texture of a vanilla R2 eastern spangenhelm (along with aventail instead of coif variants for Counterpoint's spangenhelm). Annnd a few different bardings.

[juanplay]

Nice clibanarium model, one question ¿will there be in the future multiple types of cataphracts and clibanarii?, like for example some that would be along the border in Mesopotamia and the Danube, following the Notitia Dignatatum, units like: the Equites Primi Clibanarii Parthi, Comites Clibanarii, Equites Persae Clibanarii, Cuneus equitum secundorum clibanariorum Palmirenorum, Scola scutariorum clibanariorum.

[Ahiga]

I have to ask someone with more experience editing animation files. I know someone at total war general on 4chan /vg/ came up with a bow/lance/sword system I think, or bow-lance, but apparently also discontinued it for some technical reason. What would be ideal for me is to have animation for Sassanids and 1 Roman cataphract able to use the bow, the lance only on the charge and idle animation, and swords in melee, but have the bow be used like a fire-at-will javelin rather than a horse-archer bow. Which is to say remove the ability to skirmish, else what you have is the AI treating heavy cataphracts like fragile horse archers.

If that doesn't pan out then we'll have to do the artificial division of a horse archer cataphract and lancer cataphract.

In terms of unit types, my formula in particular right now is more simple = more time to do other important work vs more complex = less time to do other important work. If the choice is between trying to offer a meaningful difference in appearance (or figuring out the difference in quality) between a Equites Primi Clibanarii Parthi and Equites Persae Clibanarii, and starting on the Sassanids or Germanics or doing more Roman shields or horse armor, then the latter is going to win out. Similarly the use of vexillationes of cavalry and infantry at this point, with only an early stage of the comitatus, it helps for the idea that various cataphract units would be brought together into a single unit for the field army. There's also the issue of having to either create or deal with an AOR - either you have to create a brand new "West Roman" "East Roman" AOR (as well we might have to), or create a bunch of the same cataphract units with one being tied to AOR Illyria, one to AOR gaul, one to AOR Syria, ect.

So while I haven't settled on it, it'll probably be just a Cataphract unit(s) (Either all-in-one with the 3 weapon animations, or one lancer one horse archer) and a Clibanarii unit(s) (again, same deal). Presumably following the historians arguing in favor of a difference between the two, the cataphracts not all having horse-barding (or not all with metal barding), and the Clibanarii all having barding. Maybe a division of West/East since I'm not sure there'd be a horse archer cataphract corps in the West or if the West might have true superheavies.

[xxxMoRaVexxx]

Wow, really nice work being done here! Will this be for the next version or the next after the next?

+rep .

[juanplay]

I have to ask someone with more experience editing animation files. I know someone at total war general on 4chan /vg/ came up with a bow/lance/sword system I think, or bow-lance, but apparently also discontinued it for some technical reason. What would be ideal for me is to have animation for Sassanids and 1 Roman cataphract able to use the bow, the lance only on the charge and idle animation, and swords in melee, but have the bow be used like a fire-at-will javelin rather than a horse-archer bow. Which is to say remove the ability to skirmish, else what you have is the AI treating heavy cataphracts like fragile horse archers.

If that doesn't pan out then we'll have to do the artificial division of a horse archer cataphract and lancer cataphract.

In terms of unit types, my formula in particular right now is more simple = more time to do other important work vs more complex = less time to do other important work. If the choice is between trying to offer a meaningful difference in appearance (or figuring out the difference in quality) between a Equites Primi Clibanarii Parthi and Equites Persae Clibanarii, and starting on the Sassanids or Germanics or doing more Roman shields or horse armor, then the latter is going to win out. Similarly the use of vexillationes of cavalry and infantry at this point, with only an early stage of the comitatus, it helps for the idea that various cataphract units would be brought together into a single unit for the field army. There's also the issue of having to either create or deal with an AOR - either you have to create a brand new "West Roman" "East Roman" AOR (as well we might have to), or create a bunch of the same cataphract units with one being tied to AOR Illyria, one to AOR gaul, one to AOR Syria, ect.

So while I haven't settled on it, it'll probably be just a Cataphract unit(s) (Either all-in-one with the 3 weapon animations, or one lancer one horse archer) and a Clibanarii unit(s) (again, same deal). Presumably following the historians arguing in favor of a difference between the two, the cataphracts not all having horse-barding (or not all with metal barding), and the Clibanarii all having barding. Maybe a division of West/East since I'm not sure there'd be a horse archer cataphract corps in the West or if the West might have true superheavies.

Thanks for your answer, as for the west Clibanarii the Notitia says at least one unit of clibanarii served there, namely the Equites sagittarii clibanarii, which means they probably used the bow and for some strange reason they were garrisoned in Africa, also there is this unit Augustodunensis loricaria, balistaria et clibanaria that by the looks of it is some sort of armoured artillery unit, dont know how that would be like.

[Ahiga]

Wow, really nice work being done here! Will this be for the next version or the next after the next?

+rep .

Everything previewed will be for the next big release - if there's a smaller update Dresden does to get it in line with a surprise patch by CA or somesuch it won't be in it.

My goal for that big release is model/texture wise:

-5-6 oval shield decor x 4 for legionary units of each of the Roman emperors. I have about +10 right now but they are unorganized/unassigned.
-5-6 oval shield decor x 4 for comitatenses legionaries of the Roman emperors. Sometimes less, sometimes more - maxentius' will only have 4 of the Ioviani/Herculiani designs in his Comitatenses legiones.
-A smattering of blank or more modestly decorated oval shields for Auxilia and such.
-Not sure how many smaller round shield decor there will be for the cavalry. (Promoti using round small shields, Illyricani covering Equites Scutarii by having the large oval shields).
-2-3 Praetorian shield designs shared by 3 non-Christian Emperors, Chi-rhos with or without additional decor for Constantine's Praetorians. (If someone has evidence he didn't have such an infantry corps, but instead might have had a proto Auxilia Palatina as his infantry guard, then I could apply that here)

-Armor, except for Cataphracts, is mostly done.
-Would like to see if I can't do the muscled cuirass with large pteruges worn here http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--bTxJrhznO...2be018bcc7.jpg for officers/generals. May lack the belt since the model wouldn't accommodate it.
-Maybe a few more tunic color variations but that's also mostly done.
-Maures units will use my existing Libo-Numidian skins so that's already done.
-Not sure if I will be able to get to Foederati (Germanic or Arab/eastern), those may have placeholders.

And whatever else comes up during the process. I've seen sometimes brass/bronze colored ridge helmets, I am curious if anyone has strong evidence to point to that in which case I can quickly make bronze/brass variants.

[Shapur e Sassani]

how are these?
Sassanian kurdish javelines



Sassanian heavy spearmen



Sassanian royal spearmen



Soghdian infantry ( mace men )



Armoured sassanian elephants



Sassanian potighbans

[Shapur e Sassani]

I made some units for the Sassanian empire :

Sassanian kurdish javelines



Sassanian heavy spearmen



Sassanian royal spearmen



Soghdian infantry ( mace men )



Armoured sassanian elephants



Sassanian potighbans

[juanplay]

cant see them.