Labour (UK) Milliband, the future leader!

[Denny Crane!]

Labour were widely recognised to have reinvented political spin, the politics of spin, as it was called. Since they fell from power this has taken on a whole new life and this is a shining example of it.

Not that it is particularly new for a politician to avoid answering a question mind. This is Michael Howard getting interviewed by Paxman where he infamously refused to answer a question for a solid 5 minutes!



But the latest tactic for Labour is to carefully craft every sentence and repeat it ad infinitum as shown by this leaders disgraceful interview. Further to this though they will pick one singular topic and make sure that regardless of the conversation they will bring it back to that topic with the careful soundbite and ram it home over and over again.

This is an example of a typical Labour question time performance, you can swap tax break for millionaires with cost of living crisis and you can throw in the odd: NHS cornerstone of British society, Nurses and Teachers do a fantastic job, the royal family is doing a great job and are a valuable asset (rapturous applause).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What about the HS2?

Well I think it is disgraceful when they are giving a tax break to millionaires that they are worrying about HS2! (rapturous applause...)

What do you think about the Syria crisis?

Well I think it is disgraceful and a very weak performance given by William Hague I mean he clearly isn't worrying about Syria and is to busy giving tax breaks to millionaires! (rapturous applause)

What is Labours position on spending, what would they cut?

Well I mean it is clear that the conservatives plan isn't working and Labour wouldn't follow all of their plans I mean certainly wouldn't be giving a tax break for millionaires!

I really feel that this is a further debasement of British politics.

Furthermore what do you think of the future leader of the UK? Does he inspire confidence?

[Markas]

Furthermore what do you think of the future leader of the UK? Does he inspire confidence?

He's doing a great job. Most of the other parties are too busy giving tax breaks to millionaires.

It's not Ed's fault his Spin Doctor holding up his written responses has early onset Alzheimer's.

[Lord of Nihilism]

Politicians are expected to be able to lie to the populace as well as have their support; Ed doesn't seem to have as much support as the UKIP or the Conservatives so he's a poor politician technically speaking. I'm hoping the UKIP wins the British elections since he's probably the only man in the UK who can stand up to the EU/4th Reich or whatever you want to call it, and he's a much more eloquent speaker than both David Cameron and Ed Miliband. I'm not British though so unfortunately I won't be able to vote in the UK's next election.

[Denny Crane!]

Politicians are expected to be able to lie to the populace as well as have their support; Ed doesn't seem to have as much support as the UKIP or the Conservatives so he's a poor politician technically speaking. I'm hoping the UKIP wins the British elections since he's probably the only man in the UK who can stand up to the EU/4th Reich or whatever you want to call it, and he's a much more eloquent speaker than both David Cameron and Ed Miliband. I'm not British though so unfortunately I won't be able to vote in the UK's next election.

Really not sure if trolling or not. If trolling, good job, if not...errr well have a biscuit.

[Lord of Nihilism]

Really not sure if trolling or not. If trolling, good job, if not...errr well have a biscuit.

You're going to have to clarify which part of my post you think is trolling. I'll admit my statistics may be off regarding the Liberal's popularity but that's simply because I live in Canada, and the major people/political parties that get mentioned on the news is the Conservatives led by David Cameron and William Hague, and the UKIP led by Nigel Farage; Ed Miliband is a walking shadow figuratively speaking, and in fact I didn't even know who he was until a month or so ago. The rest of my post is factually correct though.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

You're going to have to clarify which part of my post you think is trolling. I'll admit my statistics may be off regarding the Liberal's popularity but that's simply because I live in Canada, and the major people/political parties that get mentioned on the news is the Conservatives led by David Cameron and William Hague, and the UKIP led by Nigel Farage; Ed Miliband is a walking shadow figuratively speaking, and in fact I didn't even know who he was until a month or so ago. The rest of my post is factually correct though.

Didn't even realize the Canadian media took an interest in our politics, i feel all fuzzy now!

But seriously UKIP have no political seats in West-minister, and i'ts up in the air how well their going to do in the elections due to the way ours system works (and the fact that they don't currently have 'popular' support.) Also throw in the fact that the last 'UKIP surge' turned into a total bummer for them and i believe we're alright from their influence for now.

The only reason they have a media platform currently is the fact that Cameron to appease conservative voters has decided to hold a referendum on the EU IF the tories win the election. While this was perhaps motivated by UKIP (who were stealing Tory heartland voters) it's not as if their in any real position of authority to dictate policy. Or even have much support!

But on Denny's question. I'm actually shocked at Labour currently. Milliband is a poor leader. He hasn't the charisma needed (Like Tony did), nor the rhetoric, or ability. The man is quite literally a Cameron clone (who is also an awful politician and rather incompetent). So due to this i can't see a Labour win being in site anywhere.

What's worrying though Denny is what you've highlighted, every parties doing it now. I got a UKIP leaflet through the post, i'm tempted to take pics and post them up in a thread describing bad British political practice. It's more of the same. Sound-bites repeated in writing. And no actual data or backing evidence. It's total rubbish. And the conduct from the other parties isn't much better (perhaps the Scottish Greens, or indeed Green party in general...though most of their policies are...well... unworkable to say the least). I think we're suffering from 'populist' politics in the UK currently. Theirs a trend that we need to be treated like idiots and hand held into voting for them, and i'm not sure how to change it...

[Lord of Nihilism]

Didn't even realize the Canadian media took an interest in our politics, i feel all fuzzy now!

But seriously UKIP have no political seats in West-minister, and i'ts up in the air how well their going to do in the elections due to the way ours system works (and the fact that they don't currently have 'popular' support.) Also throw in the fact that the last 'UKIP surge' turned into a total bummer for them and i believe we're alright from their influence for now.

The only reason they have a media platform currently is the fact that Cameron to appease conservative voters has decided to hold a referendum on the EU IF the tories win the election. While this was perhaps motivated by UKIP (who were stealing Tory heartland voters) it's not as if their in any real position of authority to dictate policy. Or even have much support!

.

Not really surprising that British politics are broadcasted and discussed widely in Canada, since the cultural and heritage links between our two country's is strong. Although, you won't find news outlets discussing British politics here in Quebec or the North West Territories(Yukon and Nunavut) for some fairly obvious reasons.

If the UKIP has no seats in the House of Commons as you say then it, seems the UKIP isn't as popular as Canadian media has made it out to be, but i'm not one to predicate a decision based on mere conjecture; I'll wait until the UK elections are closer since that is when people will be most active in politics, and you'll see who people will support. I only brought up the fact that UKIP is popular simply because if Wikipedia is correct, their membership numbers have been increasing steadily over the past few years; there's been no decrease in party members and seems to gaining a fair amount of traction(19K in 2012, 30K in 2013 and 36k in 2014 as of April).

It's hard to be certain about the reason why the UKIP have a media platform. You mentioned that they have no seats in the House of Commons, but that could also change before the next election. They also seem to have a platform to stand on simply because Miliband and David Cameron are concerned about the UKIP's potential, and the Labour and Conservatives always seem to be talking about the UKIP and how their Party isn't suited to lead the UK. Like I said, it's difficult to be certain how exactly the UKIP got to where it's at today, but I do know that they currently have a platform and the fact that David Cameron and Miliband feel "threatened" leads me to believe that the UKIP has realistic potential.

Honestly, I think the UKIP could win the next election with a majority IF instead of choosing to completely exit the EU, Nigel could make the UK have more influence in the EU via political means. As it currently stands, the EU is a German organisation and Germany is practically the leader of it. There are obvious benefits to the EU which Scotsmen, Welshmen and Northern Irishmen would like to retain I think, so if the UKIP could forge a new "Bloc" within the EU with countries such as Sweden, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark and etc, it could increase the UK's influence(Since it has practically none at the moment) while still reaping the benefits that the EU offers, and most importantly it would be a counterweight to German-French dominance in the EU. I imagine most Britons would vote for the UKIP if this was their main focus, but it is what it is and right now, it seems the only option for the UK is to leave the EU or forever be bound by laws that are made by German politicians in Berlin.

@ Denny Crane

As I said, my perception of British politics is based on Canadian media outlets and here, Ed Miliband is unheard of and the Labour Party is practically non existent. Most Canadian news outlets only talk about the UKIP, Nigel Farage, David Cameron, William Hague and the Conservatives along with Tony Blair.

The internet based media outlet I visit(The Guardian) is heavily favoured towards the Labour Party but even then most of their political articles talk about the Conservatives and the UKIP, and not about Ed Miliband and the Labour Party(For the most part).

[Denny Crane!]

You're going to have to clarify which part of my post you think is trolling. I'll admit my statistics may be off regarding the Liberal's popularity but that's simply because I live in Canada, and the major people/political parties that get mentioned on the news is the Conservatives led by David Cameron and William Hague, and the UKIP led by Nigel Farage; Ed Miliband is a walking shadow figuratively speaking, and in fact I didn't even know who he was until a month or so ago. The rest of my post is factually correct though.

Well you said Ed doesn't seem to have as much support as UKIP even though Labour have a clear substantial lead in every poll and apart from in european elections it remains unlikely that UKIP will get a single MP elected. Not sure you should be commenting on UK politics at this point

[Astaroth]

Denny. By talking about this issue before the elections you have acted in a reckless and provocative manner. I suggest that we all set aside the rhetoric and get around the negotiating table to stop this happening again.


To be honest, though, while I despite politicians speaking like that, we ultimately only have ourselves to blame:

First of all, many people (in every country) are too bloody stupid to understand complicated policies, advanced logic and reason. They don't care about statistics or who is right, what they care about is what sounds good and feels good. Simple phrases and statements for simple people. This has the obvious result that if you don't simplify your messages and keep repeating them ad infinitum, people are simply not going to understand them and not going to care. Most politicians are fairly smart, intellectual people. I'm sure Milliband knows how stupid he sounded and such. But the problem is, what are you going to do about it? Complicated arguments, intellectual debates and statistics don't win the hearts and minds.

In the end, it's all about Hope and Change. Good work for good people. For a better future. No child left behind. Politicians have to make their arguments fit the lowest common denominator and the desire of the media to have simple, to the point headlines.

Secondly, our society is always out for political scandals and poorly phrased statements. As soon as a politician makes a mistake, says something he didn't actually want to say or makes an inept comparison, the media will immediately jump on him. At best, they'll make him look like a buffoon (see GW Bush, although he was in fact fairly... simple). At worst, he'll quickly look like a Nazi, apologist for this group or another or someone who is out to get a particular group of people. Now, politicians are professionals and they are of course responsible for what they say. But in a world in which every single statement of yours made in public can and will be quoted (if noteworthy), it is often the easiest (and perhaps only) solution to hide behind soundbites. Because if you don't (especially in interviews), the DailyFail et al. will immediately publicly crucify you.


This is just something to keep in mind. Of course many politicians are egomaniacs, pathological liars et al. Of course most of them desire more power and many of them might even be corrupt. But you always have to remember that they are mostly just a product of society as a whole. Even a morally upright politician with the best intentions will ultimately either capsize in the storm of public opinion or adapt and become another soundbite-machine. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. And if you are going to point out politicians who seem more genuine, closer to the people, then these are simply more adapt at public speaking and presenting their similar soundbites to the electorate, see Farage or Obama.

[Gatsby]

If only David Miliband hadn't been shafted at the leadership election those years ago.

[Gatsby]

UKIP has only made a very effective illusion of appealing to the working class. Economically they favour the wealthy even more than the damned Tories but because they can make snappy quips against the EU and immigrants they can distract your run of the mill semi-skilled xenophobe jackass from the fact that the man-of the-people Farage was born into the upper-class, privately educated and was fast-tracked into the brokerage business.

Basically British politics is a choice between the middle-class pretending to know the poor and the upper-class pretending to to care about the poor. Labour has went from being led by the likes of Hardie, Attlee and the Bevins to a disconnected, helplessly bourgeois sod.

[Delvecchio1975]

I'm not impressed with Labour at the moment. It is indeed funny they still have a lead over the tories, as I have never seen such lame and rudderless opposition, anywhere. On the other hand i saw Gideon being interviewed yesterday, with a hard hat on a building site (hahaha), and they asked him to comment on the fact that although GDP has gone up after the longest economic crisis in history, GDP per capita STILL isn't back to pre-crisis levels. What did he say? "It's labour's fault". Really? You've been in power how long now? And still blaming your predecessor for what was CLEARLY a world wide crisis? Speaking of spin .....

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

The guy is a Mossad agent. Seriously check out his recent visit to Israel.Clear propaganda.

The whole party does not represent the people.The working man who works so the upper class can enjoy their caviar and brandy.The lower class exists so that the working class are afraid to be lower class and work harder to keep afloat.Now with all the foreign workers from Poland what are the middle class for now.They will have to race to the bottom and will never aspire to upper class ever.

[nemgod]

Actually how is what Milliband doing any different to what Cameron did in the years before the election was called. All we go from here were a few talking points and how he was not Brown, but giving absolutely no substance right until election season started. All we ever had was "Well it's not the opposition's place to give their own ideas, only to call out and talk down the flaws in the government." in this own very forums i believe too.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Actually how is what Milliband doing any different to what Cameron did in the years before the election was called. All we go from here were a few talking points and how he was not Brown, but giving absolutely no substance right until election season started. All we ever had was "Well it's not the opposition's place to give their own ideas, only to call out and talk down the flaws in the government." in this own very forums i believe too.

I think that's the problem. Cameron is god awful too as a leader and politician. I'm actually quite keen to find out who really advises the Tory party, as it's clear they get their direction from some where (this isn't in a conspiracy theory kinda way, more like with Labour under Blair/Brown it was Mendalson etc)

[Heinz Guderian]

who says Britain was not ready for a non-white leader? if the US can elect Obama and overcome racial divides, we can elect Milliband.

[nemgod]

who says Britain was not ready for a non-white leader? if the US can elect Obama and overcome racial divides, we can elect Milliband.

We already had Benjamin Disraeli in the 1800s.

[Heinz Guderian]

We already had Benjamin Disraeli in the 1800s.

well yeah but he wasnt a proper one like Milliband

[nemgod]

I'm pretty thinking there might be a few people behind the scenes helping him. Sometimes you seem to get some really progressive laws being put forward like finally allowing homosexual couples to marry. Then at the same time he has to draw back to please some of the more hard line back backbenchers. The Tory party seems to be 2 parties in one and only became where they are because Cameron wasn't Brown and could actually give a good speech to rile up support.

[Pielstick]

Furthermore what do you think of the future leader of the UK? Does he inspire confidence?

The only thing he inspires in me is dread at the thought he could very well end up as the next PM.

I've noticed exactly the same thing from the two Eds (and the rest of the Labour front bench). Answer every single question with a reference to tax breaks for millionaires.

I can only pray that come next year the British electorate remember what 13 years of New Labour did to this country. However, I'm also aware there are swathes of the country that would vote for a ferking dustbin if you stuck a Labour rosette on it.