Why confrère knights require a king's stable?

[Melooo182]

Hello, maybe you guys may shed some light on this. K/T?

You know the Confrère Knight unit from Crusader States, which is nothing more than a little bit better Mailed Knight...so why does it requires the King's Stables?
shouldn't it be available with just the castle building tree like all other "Knights" unit?

[k/t]

K/T?

I've taken a look at the EDU, EDB and export_units and:

1) It's not just a little better, it's quite a bit better.
2) It's not a Feudal unit but a Religious Order unit. However, Lazarus Knights are also Religious Order and they're recruitable from walls.

So to answer your question, I don't know.

While doing this research, I discovered that the Constable Of Jerusalem is recruitable from barracks instead of stables. Strange.

[Melooo182]

Mailed Knight vs Confrère Knight (from SS6.4 standard EDU)


attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, can_formed_charge, knight, free_upkeep_unit
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, can_formed_charge, knight
move_speed_mod 0.95
stat_pri 4, 12, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 75, 1
stat_pri 8, 12, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 60, 1
stat_sec 8, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 30, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_sec 8, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, blunt, mace, 45, 1
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_heat 5
stat_heat 4


stat_mental 14, low, trained
stat_mental 17, impetuous, trained
stat_pri_armour 4, 4, 5, metal
armour_ug_levels 7, 11, 15, 23
stat_pri_armour 6, 4, 3, metal
armour_ug_levels 7, 11, 15, 23

I was asking to know if i could classify it as a bug thus including a fix in the bugfix compilation instead of the optional "fixes/tweaks" I will release after.

Yes they have much better stats sorry , i previously had compared them only in primary weapon and armour upgrades

But still the cost and time to get a King's Stable is way too High IMO (43000f and 28 turns), specially for a faction like crusader states were you start in a really precarious position and surrounded by enemies, not mentioning they start without a single castle. Given all this you would rather invest those 43000 florins in other more rewarding activities like bribing enemy generals, develop your cities etc. Then when you'd get your king's stable lots of turns after you would find this unit somewhat weak compared to the others available.

I suppose the extra 2 armour points are because of the barded horse right?

About the Constable, I guess that was done so they could be trained from Jerusalem as a City instead of as a Castle.

[k/t]

The Fatimids are not a problem if you strike early on.

"they start without a single castle."

You can get Gaza on turn 2.

I don't know how much attention I should pay to the old stats. I've been steeped in RC 2 for two years now so I'm constantly looking at the stats these units will have in the new Compilation (when Point Blank finally finishes it).

Confrere:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Templar Confrere Knights
dictionary Templar_Confrere_Knights ; Templar Confrere Knights, o
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_templar
banner unit templars
soldier Templar_Confrere_Knights, 20, 0, 1
officer Templar_Confrere_Knights
officer northern_captain_early_flag
mount order barded horse charger lancer
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, can_formed_charge, frighten_foot, knight, command
move_speed_mod 1.0
formation 1.5, 4.4, 2.5, 6, 2, square ; ; , wedge
stat_health 1, 3
stat_pri 7, 15, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 75, 1
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 7, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, blunt, mace, 60, 1
;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 7, 4, 3, metal ;
;stat_armour_ex 5, 0, 0, 0, 4, 6, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 8
stat_ground -1, -2, -3, -1
stat_mental 17, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 45
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1105, 200, 80, 95, 1105, 4, 250
armour_ug_levels 7, 11, 17, 37
armour_ug_models Templar_Confrere_Knights, Templar_Confrere_Knights, Templar_Confrere_Knights, Templar_Confrere_Knights
ownership jerusalem
era 0 jerusalem
era 1 jerusalem
recruit_priority_offset 40

Mailed:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Mailed Knights
dictionary Mailed_Knights ; Mailed Knights, f
category cavalry ; superior mounted melee, early lance/sword
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier Mailed_Knights, 20, 0, 1
officer Mailed_Knights_ug1
officer northern_captain_early_flag
mount early heavy horse charger
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, can_formed_charge, frighten_foot, knight, free_upkeep_unit
formation 1.5, 4.4, 2.5, 6, 2, square ; , wedge
stat_health 1, 3
stat_pri 3, 11, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 90, 1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 7, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, slashing, sword, 45, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 5, 6, 5, metal ;
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 9
stat_ground -1, -2, -3, -1
stat_mental 15, low, untrained
stat_charge_dist 45
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 790, 450, 120, 95, 790, 4, 170
armour_ug_levels 7, 11, 17, 22
armour_ug_models Mailed_Knights, Mailed_Knights_ug1, Mailed_Knights_ug1, Mailed_Knights_ug1, Feudal_Knights_ug1
ownership scotland, france, hre, spain, aragon, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states, slave
era 0 scotland, france, hre, spain, aragon, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states
era 1 scotland, france, hre, spain, aragon, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states
recruit_priority_offset 30

The difference becomes even greater.

Yeah, the difference is because of the horse armour.

Ultimately, we will have to ask whoever made this EDB why he assigned the units in such a way.