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Thread: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

  1. #1
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    I recently started playing Chivalry TW, and after a practice run with the Berbers, I decided to try Hungary.
    There is a strange thing with hungarian towns though, I hope somebody can clarify what is happening.


    So:
    I have a town (actually 3, but doesn't matter) which is
    1. officially christian
    2. has a pagan minority
    3. has a sacred shrine (pagan conversion)
    4. pagan religion is causing some (managable) unrest

    Now, if I destroy the pagan shrine
    1. the official settlement religion will become pagan
    2. christian religion will cause unrest


    Basically I would like to destroy the pagan shrine without the town changing religion to pagan.
    Anybody has an idea what should I do?


    Thanks

  2. #2
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Nevermind, I am the idiot.

  3. #3
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    OK, I have a real question after all.


    Hungary starts with: 5 settlements, 4 generals bodyguard, 5 archers, -3500 treasury (in the 3rd turn one will have positive balance tho).


    Around turn 6-8, a strange thing happened:
    - one of my cities suddenly was sieged by a Byzantine army (7-8 units)
    - all of a sudden I was in control of Rashka (a settlement on the Adriatic coast 2 rebel provinces away from me)
    - I was in war with Byzantium


    Any ideas?
    I will surely restart, as I didn't anticipate Byzantium blitzing me, so I didn't have an army yet (only the starting bodyguards and archers, but those couldn't leave the city).
    The question is what happened with Rashka? Is it a scripted event? Did it rebel from Byzantium to me?

    edit: This mod is really awesome btw. I also like the M2TW version of SicilianVespers, but that is kind of unplayable for me (awful lag on campaign map which will not be corrected I guess).
    In general the mod is refreshingly different
    (specifically Hungary is easier then it should be, as the faction has access to the Man at arms and knights line, which it shouldn't, but it is still great fun)
    Last edited by shikaka; April 27, 2014 at 04:55 AM.

  4. #4
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    The question is what happened with Rashka? Is it a scripted event? Did it rebel from Byzantium to me?
    Yes it has rebeled to you and it is probable that it will hapen again in your new campaign.The same happend to me when playing Hungarian campaign. IIRC, it is because thet in Chivalry some (maybe every, not sure) regions sre coded to join some particular faction in the case of revolt). Same way Georgia often rebels and join Cilician Armenia when conquered by Seljuks.
    I will surely restart, as I didn't anticipate Byzantium blitzing me, so I didn't have an army yet (only the starting bodyguards and archers, but those couldn't leave the city).
    I do not think you need to restart. Your general bodyguards (and knights in general) are extremly powerful in this mod, if you merge more of them into one army you can defeat much stronger enemy armies (especialy Byzantines tends to recruit infantry only armies early in the game which is advantage for you). Build taverns as soon as possible and recruit some horsearchers, they have very limited amo in this mod bud they are deadly. With the army of 3 family members and 6 horsearchers you can easily defeat most armies with will Byzzies sent to you early in the game. Mercany Italian Crossbowmen and Frankish Man at Arms are also useful.
    edit: This mod is really awesome btw. I also like the M2TW version of SicilianVespers, but that is kind of unplayable for me (awful lag on campaign map which will not be corrected I guess).
    Yes the mod is amazing. I prefer it to most of the medieval mods I have tired. Especialy for playing certian factions often misrepresented in the most M2TW mods (like Hungary, Bohemia, Poland, Sicilo-Normans, Byzantines and Danes). I also like the fact that it does not strech through the whole middle ages but deal only with the period of early high middle ages.
    specifically Hungary is easier then it should be, as the faction has access to the Man at arms and knights line, which it shouldn't, but it is still great fun)
    The philosophy of the creators of the mod was to completely avoid the use of backgraund script in the mod (for stability reasons). Therefore there no reforms in this mod. All units are available but for some more advanced high era units you have to build higher levels of some buildings.

  5. #5
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by demagogos nicator View Post
    Yes it has rebeled to you and it is probable that it will hapen again in your new campaign.The same happend to me when playing Hungarian campaign. IIRC, it is because thet in Chivalry some (maybe every, not sure) regions sre coded to join some particular faction in the case of revolt). Same way Georgia often rebels and join Cilician Armenia when conquered by Seljuks.
    That is good to know, thanks.


    I do not think you need to restart. Your general bodyguards (and knights in general) are extremly powerful in this mod, if you merge more of them into one army you can defeat much stronger enemy armies (especialy Byzantines tends to recruit infantry only armies early in the game which is advantage for you). Build taverns as soon as possible and recruit some horsearchers, they have very limited amo in this mod bud they are deadly. With the army of 3 family members and 6 horsearchers you can easily defeat most armies with will Byzzies sent to you early in the game. Mercany Italian Crossbowmen and Frankish Man at Arms are also useful.
    I think I got that.
    I played a tutorial campaign (berbers looked easy, so I tried them), and the generals bodyguards proved very useful.
    I also recognized that you can get your troops from unusual buildings (smithy and inn). Strange concepts, but it seems historical.

    The reason why my family members cannot leave the city is that it would revolt otherwise (also Hungary starts in war with the germans. That is the reason why I would like to restart.


    The philosophy of the creators of the mod was to completely avoid the use of backgraund script in the mod (for stability reasons). Therefore there no reforms in this mod. All units are available but for some more advanced high era units you have to build higher levels of some buildings.
    I meant that IRL Hungary didn't have access to skilled infantryman in the timeframe. Until about the early 14th century (Anjou kings) the generals didn't take infantry to battle.
    (horses were cheap, and there were no skilled infantryman available).

    In the mod you can get man at arms from the smithy, so the situation is better/easier then it was historically.

  6. #6
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    The reason why my family members cannot leave the city is that it would revolt otherwise (also Hungary starts in war with the germans. That is the reason why I would like to restart.
    That strange, Do you have the last version of the mod? I am sure that Hungary starts with peace with everyone except independent kingdoms (rebels) and I remember that I was able to leave my settlement with the garrison of about two units of spear militia and unit of archers in my campaign. Remeber having som trouble with public order only in Munkács but lowering the taxes and building tavern and gallows helped to overcome the issues.
    I meant that IRL Hungary didn't have access to skilled infantryman in the timeframe. Until about the early 14th century (Anjou kings) the generals didn't take infantry to battle.
    (horses were cheap, and there were no skilled infantryman available).

    In the mod you can get man at arms from the smithy, so the situation is better/easier then it was historically.
    You have probably the point here, but you could still rolepay them to be german mercaneries or some early settlers.

  7. #7
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Can the area of recruitment be viewed outside the game?

    I know I can check the available units _after_ I get a settlement, but it would be good to know if beforehand.


    In a few cases (Byzantium, Kiev, Seljuks) it would be good to know where I should expand. For example I _guess_ that I will not be able to train byzantine units in Alexandria or Jerusalem, but is there a way to check the places where I am able to do it?

  8. #8
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Can the area of recruitment be viewed outside the game?
    As far as I know there is no complex unit guide made for the Chivalry, so going trough the text files of the mod is the only possible way.

  9. #9
    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Hey demagogos nicator, thanks for helping out in the moderation, keep that up if you like ... us official members/moderators are merely non-active.

    I'll add you to the credits list accordingly, just in case i see you'll continue to help the visitors of this ChivTW forum.
    # Anthropocene # not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA # Deforestation # Plastic Emission # The Blob # Uninhabitable Earth # Savest Place On Earth # ICAN # MIT study "Falsehoods Win"
    # "there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth. Mind viruses of the Right: Religious fundamentalism, chauvinism, fascism and populism. Driven by arrogance and ignorance paired with reactionism.
    # "Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by demagogos nicator View Post
    Yes it has rebeled to you and it is probable that it will hapen again in your new campaign.The same happend to me when playing Hungarian campaign. IIRC, it is because thet in Chivalry some (maybe every, not sure) regions sre coded to join some particular faction in the case of revolt). Same way Georgia often rebels and join Cilician Armenia when conquered by Seljuks.
    Yes, every region has a "faction creator" or something in the descr_regions file. This has two main effects:

    1. The faction "creator", if AI, is more likely to try and take the settlement
    2. If the faction rebels, and is NOT held by the creator faction, and the creator faction is alive, it will rebel to them.

    eg: Rome is "created" by romans_julii, say

    If it rebels from any other faction, it will go to them if they are alive. Otherwise (romans_julii are dead, or they were the one it rebelled from) it goes to the standard rebel faction, "slave"


    The religion system depends not only on the temple, but if you notice, er the governor's building or some other buildings also have religious conversion effects. In some cases, it's nigh impossible to avoid having to bite off the -100% public order penalty from religion...
    Last edited by Alavaria; May 07, 2014 at 09:29 PM.

  11. #11
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by Alavaria View Post
    The religion system depends not only on the temple, but if you notice, er the governor's building or some other buildings also have religious conversion effects. In some cases, it's nigh impossible to avoid having to bite off the -100% public order penalty from religion...
    What confused me was that the "sacred place" or something (first in the temple line) was giving -5% pagan conversion, which I read as 5% pagan conversion.
    I guess I am too accustomed to Medieval 2 style conversion (usually there is no -conversion building).

  12. #12

    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by shikaka View Post
    What confused me was that the "sacred place" or something (first in the temple line) was giving -5% pagan conversion, which I read as 5% pagan conversion.
    I guess I am too accustomed to Medieval 2 style conversion (usually there is no -conversion building).
    Yeah. Er, RTW allows you to assign negative bonuses.

    Not just for this, but you can have -1 bonus to trade (negates a bonus of 1 to trade) and negative bonuses to happiness as well. Vanilla RTW hardly has negative bonuses for anything, but mods do make use of it occasionally. I have not tried to see if M2TW will allow negative conversion.

    Basically, removing that sacred place meant that the conversion to paganism became higher, making it the official religion. I see, hilarious. I think building trees are shared between factions, so the "sacred place" is basically your standard church or what have you.

  13. #13
    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Thank you, too, Alavaria!

    Fully right, what he says.#
    Nice, to get reminded of all that modding-pioneer-fuzz, somehow makes me feeling some nostalgy

    I did a lot of those coding relations, much more than any other RTW mod at the time, as i realised these kinds of coding (ie. other RTW modders at the time didn't believe/know, it can even work, as it is complete over the vanilla coding approaches), just to exploit the possible realism and campaign challenge plus, important, influence AI behaviour (all that without to using active background scripting*, which basicly destablizes the RTW engine) - and still, iirc., ChivTW is easily playable imo. if iirc. (we had have far harder versions earlier on, and after quite some players mouned about the one and other item, i lightened the one and other coded challenge).

    * scripting is used though a lot in all my M2TW modding, because there, it is much more stable (the one big advantage of the M2 engine).
    # Anthropocene # not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA # Deforestation # Plastic Emission # The Blob # Uninhabitable Earth # Savest Place On Earth # ICAN # MIT study "Falsehoods Win"
    # "there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth. Mind viruses of the Right: Religious fundamentalism, chauvinism, fascism and populism. Driven by arrogance and ignorance paired with reactionism.
    # "Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
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  14. #14
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    ChivTW is easily playable imo. if iirc. (we had have far harder versions earlier on, and after quite some players mouned about the one and other item, i lightened the one and other coded challenge).
    I did have a look at the old topics, and there were quite some strange discussions.

    I played quite some mods, but I have to say gameplay-wise this is one of the best. What I really like is that I don't have to force house rules on myself to conquer slowly, and the innovative building tree.


    off
    Does anybody have the FCRC mod somewhere? there is no working download anywhere. (Sorry to write here but as I see the submod topics don't have many visitors)
    /off

  15. #15
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    Hey demagogos nicator, thanks for helping out in the moderation, keep that up if you like ... us official members/moderators are merely non-active.

    I'll add you to the credits list accordingly, just in case i see you'll continue to help the visitors of this ChivTW forum.
    Hey Da Vinci, I can't say that I am very active either but usually I visit the twc at least once pre weak and When I am on twc I allways often take a look to the Chivalry forum and try to give an advice where I am able to. Depsite the fact I have not played the mod for some time I still fell a lot of nostalgy about it. Chivalry provides amazing high medieval atmosphere (not disturbet by the M2TW late medieval elements) and the coding you have done to the mod provides for amazing gameplay. I still regard Chivalry among the best total war mods set in the middle ages.

    Does anybody have the FCRC mod somewhere? there is no working download anywhere. (Sorry to write here but as I see the submod topics don't have many visitors)
    I am sorry I does not have the mods anymore. It does not differ that much from vanila Chivalry except timeframe and appropriate changes in the faction starting positions and family trees. Most significant change is probably the addition of Teutonic/Swordbrethern faction which is not very historical in the given timeframe (IIRC mod start in 1193) but provides for amazing gamplay experience. If you like Chivalry and foud someway a downalnd link it is deffinately worth trying.
    Last edited by demagogos nicator; May 09, 2014 at 06:32 AM.

  16. #16
    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: Settlement Religion strange behaviour

    What I really like is that I don't have to force house rules on myself to conquer slowly
    Right, that was another priority for the mod-design, is covered within the special player/AI influence coding.


    As for FCRC, i recommend try to contact Bull (main-submodder of FCRC) directly via PM.
    Last edited by DaVinci; May 10, 2014 at 10:33 AM.
    # Anthropocene # not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA # Deforestation # Plastic Emission # The Blob # Uninhabitable Earth # Savest Place On Earth # ICAN # MIT study "Falsehoods Win"
    # "there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth. Mind viruses of the Right: Religious fundamentalism, chauvinism, fascism and populism. Driven by arrogance and ignorance paired with reactionism.
    # "Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
    # My Modding List # The Witcher 3 - LoreFriendlyTweaks - The lore way to play the game

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