How to maintain the immaculate reputation?

[yeungwailei]

My faction has been staying at the "immaculate" reputation for a long time. But suddenly it dropped to "very trustworthy" while I have done nothing ugly. I checked out the reason and found the answer in TWC Wiki:

Positive factors

• Having an alliance with another faction. This will normalise your faction's reputation to 1.0 with a divisor of 400. Example: you start a new game, form an alliance and click end turn. The next turn your reputation will be 0.0025 points higher (the difference between target and current reputation is 1, divided by 400 gives 0.0025).

Additional factor

• After each turn the game will normalise your faction's reputation with a divisor of 200.
• On Easy difficulty reputation is normalized to 1.
• On Medium difficulty reputation is normalized to 0.
• On Hard/Very Hard difficulty reputation is normalized to -1.

As I have conquered the world already, only my faction and the Papal State are still alive. My faction is allied to the Papal State. Which mean my reputation has a positive normalization to 1.0 with 0.025 points each turn. But it is not enough to counter the negative normalization to -1.0 with 0.05 points each turn because of the very hard difficulty. And I don't have other method such as occupying settlement/releasing prisoners to raise my reputation because I have conquered all settlement already and there are no more prisoners I can capture.

So my question is, how do I maintain my reputation as this state? Looks like that my reputation will finally drop to "despicable" with this setting even though I am just staying there peacefully!

[Maklodes]

A sudden drop from immaculate to untrustworthy isn't explained by gradual normalization. I can't say for certain, but could it be that you took a settlement that you once gave away by diplomacy? That gives a huge penalty to reputation.

Example: you occupy Gaza, but then when signing a peace with the Egyptians, agree to give it back to them. The Egyptians break the ceasefire and jihad against Jerusalem. You fight them off and occupy Gaza again. In this case, your reputation will likely be dramatically reduced, because you conquer a settlement you once gave away in diplomacy. It's silly and unfair that you're regarded as treacherous for ever conquering a settlement you gave away, even if the enemy restarts the conflict, but I think that's how TC_STOLE_BACK_SETTLEMENT works.

Honestly, I can't think of anything to improve your reputation given the lack of potential allies or enemies (to either ally with or fight honorably by releasing prisoners and such). On the other hand, if it's just you and the papal states (inevitably run by your cardinals and pope), who cares what your reputation is? If you want to play honorably, play honorably by you own standards, and if the game calls you despicable, so what?

[eXistenZ]

you cant, game's diplomacy is bolony

[Aymer de Valence]

What you need to remember is:

- While the AI controls every faction bar 1 on the map, he also controls the way diplomacy works because it's a game
Therefore it does what it wants to you over - or at least try to, because it's terrible at fighting. I say, don't worry about it old chap.

My reputation is also 'mixed' anyway lol.

[Nzg]

Staying at immaculate is easy. Don't start wars, ALLWAYS release, allways occupy. Have 1 war at a time. Don't cancel treaties.

[Maklodes]

Staying at immaculate is easy. Don't start wars, ALLWAYS release, allways occupy. Have 1 war at a time. Don't cancel treaties.

Don't start wars? Not really relevant. Being in a war drags down your rep, regardless of who started it.

Always release? Okay, that works. Assuming you can afford to give your enemies all of those prisoners back free of charge. Once you're in yeungwailei's situation, though, that reputation well has run dry thanks to lack of enemies.

Always occupy? Doesn't actually help your reputation, but doesn't hurt it. There's a bug in descr_faction_standing.txt (a failure to comment-out all of a redacted trigger for razing settlements) that means that occupying, which was intended to improve reputation and cause a favorable reaction among other powers, to actually be global reputation-neutral and actually causes enemies to dislike your faction more than sacking. Although to be fair the "intended" effect doesn't make that much sense either. (If you occupy Krakow, it doesn't make that much sense for the Poles to actually like you more than before you occupied Krakow, even if they shouldn't prefer that you sack it.)

One war at a time? That's not exactly always your choice, is it?

Don't cancel treaties? Fair enough, but not enough to stay immaculate.

[riskymonk]

Wow that's impressive. My best was trustworthy as I was struggling with Hungary. In that campaign I found that if your ally (my ally was Poland) is occupied in a war and you pay them, offer to attack Russia etc then your reputation and relations stay as is however every time there was a ceasefire the relations between me and Poland weakened so this proved to me that it was broken and, almost, pointless. However, Thanks to my reputation I was able to buy Venice's regions who I was a vassal to. They were in soo many wars they were willing to exchange regions for money... long story short I ended up buying all regions in Greece all the way up the Balkans before eventually getting my revenge taking Venice itself. Then my rep went to the one below mixed.

So yeah diplo is broken on very hard. I prefer hard campaigns.

[yeungwailei]

Thanks for reply. Yes I know this penalty so I never give away settlement by diplomacy (because I want to dominate the entire map). My reputation just drop to "very trustworthy" instead of "untrustworthy". So I think that it should be caused by normalization.

Seems that there's no way to keep my reputation at "immaculate" after I wipe out all the enemies. Well it's not really matter as you said, but it still make me sad to see it drop gradually that I had put much effort to build it up.

[Nzg]

Hmm... I allways tought(and I recall reading about it) that the faction that starts the war get's an additional reputation penalty.

Releasing works only if you release 80+ enemy soldiers. Worth mentioning is that you must allways buy out your captured soldiers if they're in the number of 30+.

Occupying doesn't help? That's strange. For sure exterminating gives you penalty.

Having one war at a time is possible if you play your cards well. Having good garrisons near the borders and defending border settlements makes your neighbours fear you. It's also good not to have little stacks wondering since they tend to attract enemy attacks. Of course some factions like HRE are "doomed" with constant war on multiple fronts but if you're playing as England or Poland for example it's easy to have 1 war at a time.

While playing with immaculate reputation can be fun it's allways good to remember the game is called "Total War". Sometimes you need to change to a tyrant and crush your enemies

[UndrState]

Staying at immaculate is easy. Don't start wars, ALLWAYS release, allways occupy. Have 1 war at a time. Don't cancel treaties.

Don't start wars? Not really relevant. Being in a war drags down your rep, regardless of who started it.

It is relevant, as there's an added penalty for starting the war.

Occupying doesn't help? That's strange. For sure exterminating gives you penalty.

It's supposed to help, but is bugged in Vanilla - I believe Vampiresbane's Diplomacy guide links to the fix for this.

I just want to add, if you had wanted to remain Immaculate into the very last turns/region grabs, that what you would've needed is keeping more than one ally/vassal alive. It is doable!

[Aeratus]

Actually, there is one way you can get your reputation up in this situation.

Raise taxes and remove garrisons from your cities so that they revolt. Then retake the cities and choose "occupy."

You're giving your citizens "freedom" when they voluntarily choose to revolt. So your reputation is well deserved.

[UndrState]

Actually, there is one way you can get your reputation up in this situation.

Raise taxes and remove garrisons from your cities so that they revolt. Then retake the cities and choose "occupy."

You're giving your citizens "freedom" when they voluntarily choose to revolt. So your reputation is well deserved.

Except that will only work if you've fixed the "Occupy" reputation improvement bug, otherwise it does nothing.

[yeungwailei]

The only last method is bugged. My reputation is doomed lol.
Perhaps I am going to find a way to modify the reputation value in the game save, although I have no idea how to make it

[UndrState]

The only last method is bugged. My reputation is doomed lol.
Perhaps I am going to find a way to modify the reputation value in the game save, although I have no idea how to make it

Well, maybe it's time to start a new game?

[Aeratus]

That's interesting that occupy doesn't raise reputation. I had not heard of this bug before.

For OP, I think this means it's impossible to raise reputation at this point. Without starting a war with the Papal States (and defeating their armies to release prisoners), the only theoretical possibility of maintaining immaculate while owning every single province is to ally with the Mongols/Timurids, since these factions can exist even without ownership of a settlement.

[UndrState]

If the man owns the world, chances are that they're long gone...

@ yeungwailei I'd love to see a screenshot of your map BTW.

[Ishan]

I'm in a good mood to type and free from work so here is the full detail for it.

To gain perfect reputation, that is Immaculate do this:-

1. Making and keeping that alliance, it gradually increases your reputation every turn then.
2. Occupying a settlement. Occupying raises your reputation with a considerable amount for each settlement you take and is an easy way of raising reputation early on in the game (because of few public order problems).
3. Releasing prisoners. Releasing any number of prisoners results in a rise in global reputation. Releasing more then 80 prisoners gives an additional bonus. Releasing prisoners is the best way to counter the drop in global reputation a war gives.
4. Releasing enemy characters. Releasing a character raises global reputation tremendously, regardless of the number of characters released(generals only not captains).
5. Offering military assistance. This is not the same as offering to attack a faction through diplomacy (which reads as "military assistance against..." in-game) but means that you actually take part in a battle with an ally or a neutral faction (to which you have given military assistance).

What causes ur Global reputation to go down:-

1. Being at war with another faction. This will reduce your Global reputation with a very small amount every turn.
2. Attacking an ally. Backstabbing will lower your reputation instantly so again don't do it.
3. Breaking an alliance through diplomacy also reduces your Global reputation by a small factor.
4. Breaking an alliance when u have to choose between two allies when they go to war with each other. It will lower your reputation by a considerable factor.
5. Breaking a treaty. Breaking a treaty such as "trade rights" and "military access" lowers your reputation by a considerable factor.
6. Bribing a settlement. Bribing a settlement (with your diplomat) lowers your reputation by a considerable factor.
7. Stealing back a settlement. Means that u give away a settlement via diplomacy and then take it back afterwards this will surely ruin ur reputation for good. *It is advised not to do this stupidity anyways.
8. Executing prisoners. Executing any number of prisoners lowers reputation by a small factor but executing over 80 prisoners causes an additional drop in reputation which is very considerable.
9. Executing an enemy characters. Executing an enemy general that's been taken prisoner causes a considerable drop in reputation, regardless of the amount of characters.
10. Sacking a settlement. Sacking causes a drop in reputation by a small factor though if u keep doing it u will see the difference instantly.
11. Exterminating a settlement. Exterminating causes a drop in reputation greater than sacking so u might wanna avoid that.

One more thing that bugged me was this:-

That is completely false. Reputation has nothing to do with Spies and Assassins being caught, being used or being trained.
Their -ve effects are only:-

• Being caught results in faction relations. It leads to war.
• Using them makes only makes your faction leader dreadful.
• Training them also makes your faction leader dreadful. No it doesn't, it only makes the general recruiting them if present in the settlement dread.

And whether your faction leader is chivalrous or dreadful it will not affect your faction global reputation in any way.


Hope this clear your mind whoever is not familiar with it.

[UndrState]

Except that point # 2 is bugged, and needs a fix applied to work.

[Steward Denethor II]

Well, maybe it's time to start a new game?

Seconded. After you take out the Papal States, that is. At this point I don't see why you would care about your global reputation anyways.

[UndrState]

Seconded. After you take out the Papal States, that is. At this point I don't see why you would care about your global reputation anyways.

Well, I have to say it would be an interesting challenge to try and own all regions and have an immaculate reputation