German politics -- no party left to support?

[Astaroth]

I have been able to vote for a couple of years now already and followed politics even way before that. However, as a German, I am feeling increasingly unable to support any of our current political parties. Not because I consider all politicians crooks or because I hate the evil mainstream, but simply because I don't feel like my interests are properly represented by any party at the moment.

Of course it often boils down to voting for the party you have the most in common with or "the lesser evil". But at this point, I'm not even sure which party that would be. Let me explain my views on the different German parties, starting with the biggest ones:

• CDU (christian democratic union; a center-right slightly conservative party, current #1 ruling party): My biggest gripe with this party is by far that they are in a permanent union with the CSU (the Bavaria-only equivalent), a very conservative, regressive, anti-european party that is known for forcing through populist nonsense bills that benefit nobody but serve to placate xenophobic Bavarian voters. Secondly, I dislike Merkel for her constant passiveness and inability to ever take a clear stance on anything. My other big problem with the CDU/CSU is that while they have become more of a centrist party recently, many of their voters are still extremely conservative which e.g. prevents them from taking a more progressive stance on human rights (see LGBT movement and so on).
• SPD (social democrats, center-left): Several problems here. I actually supported Hartz 4/Agenda 2010 for the most part, but nowadays I can't really support the SPD anymore for 1) breaking their election promise of not allying themselves with the CDU in a grand coalition and 2) presumably sooner or later entering into a coalition with "The Left", a party that I can't support (see below). Furthermore, the SPD politicians' recent behaviour towards Russia and their general attitude of appeasement ("Ostpolitik") is diametrically opposed to my principles. I used to think Steinmeier was a decent politician, but not anymore. Not to mention Mr "Putin is a perfect democrat" Schröder who now works for Gazprom. In other words, I cannot support the current alliance with the CDU/CSU, nor the appeasement towards Russia nor the presumably sooner or later occuring move further to the left.
• The Greens: I don't have such a problem with them, but they will sooner or later either ally themselves with the CDU (I can't support that) or the SPD (ok) and "the Left" (immediate disqualification). Additionally, their current leaders are not particularly convincing and those I could actually support (e.g. Trittin) are now powerless.
• FDP (liberal democrats): I agree with their pro-human rights stance. Unfortunately, it's not a focus of their agenda and the FDP is more of a pro-big business party, again something I can't support. Not to mention how unsympathetic their politicians are or the fact that they essentially got openly bribed by the hotel lobby last time they were in power. Zero credibility, corporate sell-outs.
• The Left: Disqualified for basically every single of their positions. Russian apologism, mostly support by "anti" (=against everything) protest voters, communists and so on.
• AFD: I am essentially diametrically opposed to every single thing this party stands for. They are pro-German nationalism, anti-US, anti-EU, pro-Russia, pro-conservative values, anti-rights. In other words, "Ewiggestrige" who stand against everything that could be called progressive.

To sum up, every single German party is either 1) ridiculously conservative, living in the past, populist and anti-European/anti-Western (CSU, AFD) or 2) (potentially) allied with one of those parties (CDU, SPD via the CDU, the Greens via the CDU) or 3) communist loony left ("the Left") or 4) allied with those (potentially SPD and the Greens) or 5) corporate sell-outs controlled by big business (FDP) or 6) potentially allied with those (CDU).

This makes every single one of them unelectable for me.

My political views are incompatible with any of that. I would call myself a social democrat -- I am strongly pro individual rights (could be called a "traditionally liberal" view), but also in favour of a social safety net with universal healthcare, social security and insurances (more of a left-wing position). I am strongly pro-securalism and opposed to politics of fear based on religious or other prejudice (another reason not to vote CDU). Internationally, I'm pro-EU, pro-US (but anti-Iraq War) and pro-Israel (but against settlements in the West Bank). I support German military involvement in the world as long as it falls under a UN or NATO mission and is requested by our allies (another position basically no party supports). I am against Russian appeasement and in favour of enforcing international law with sanctions.

Just to round off the picture: pro choice (with restrictions in later stages of the pregnancy unless there is no other option), pro-environment, anti-death penalty (duh, I'm European!), anti-private gun ownership, pro-science.

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What do you guys think of the German political system and parties? Is there any party you can or do support at the moment? Do you have any suggestions for me aside from founding my own party?

[Stavroforos]

I think that this is the common trend in most developed Western countries, to be honest. Major parties which don't take clear stances on anything, don't stand for anything, and are always almost dead center, and people keep on voting for them because they're prosperous enough to not care about politics and fear change.

[The Despondent Mind]

Wait why is there so many "Anti-European" parties when Germany is practically the leader of EU? I am also surprised that there is so many pro-Russia parties, I mean how could Russia be better than the US for Germany? Are these people forgetting the differences between FRG and GDR?

[Astaroth]

Wait why is there so many "Anti-European" parties when Germany is practically the leader of EU? I am also surprised that there is so many pro-Russia parties, I mean how could Russia be better than the US for Germany? Are these people forgetting the differences between FRG and GDR?

Let me clarify: the only parties that are more or less anti-EU are the CSU (a "regional" party only active in Bavaria) and the AFD (a party that didn't receive the 5% of the votes needed to enter the German Bundestag/Parliament). The only parties that have voiced some sympathies for Russia are those two and "the Left" (an opposition pseudo-communist party).

All three of them are fairly small and their impact on the political decisions is not big.

However, the CSU is essentially in a permanent political union with the CDU, its much bigger sister party that is active everywhere but in Bavaria. CDU/CSU is currently the ruling party in Germany (in a great coalition with the SPD). Most of the parties in the German Parliament are more or less pro-Europe and pro-US.

But the problem is, the CSU is now part of the government and thus allied with the SPD as well. Furthermore, the SPD has considered a future coalition with the Greens and the Left. Likely future coalitions and governments are therefore:

CDU/CSU and SPD;
SPD, Greens, the Left;
CDU/CSU and the Greens;
or perhaps eventually even CDU/CSU and AFD

This means that regardless of who you vote for, you always get a Russian apologist and/or anti-EU party in power (not to mention that you get the choice between ultra-conservative populists [CSU] and proto-communists [the Left]), which is something I can't support. And while the other parties are more or less pro-EU and pro-US, they don't exactly voice those views very loudly considering that openly pro-European positions are not very popular right now, not even in Germany.

[Verr]

"Bibeltreue christen" if they are still around (didnt see them on the last Ballot though)

may be someday the CDU will remember what the "C" stands for.
"the Islam belongs to Germany" ... helloooooooo mr Wulff? wrong Party may be?

[nce_wht_guy]

"Bibeltreue christen" if they are still around (didnt see them on the last Ballot though)

may be someday the CDU will remember what the "C" stands for.
"the Islam belongs to Germany" ... helloooooooo mr Wulff? wrong Party may be?

I'm going go ahead and guess they haven't been very successful.

[Verr]

I'm going go ahead and guess they haven't been very successful.

there is no strength in numbers have no such misconceptions... well thats from a popsong

[Thorn777]

Wait why is there so many "Anti-European" parties when Germany is practically the leader of EU? I am also surprised that there is so many pro-Russia parties, I mean how could Russia be better than the US for Germany? Are these people forgetting the differences between FRG and GDR?

Hes just making up .

[Mangalore]

Hes just making up .

Anything to add to your conjecture?

[Knight of Heaven]

Wait why is there so many "Anti-European" parties when Germany is practically the leader of EU? I am also surprised that there is so many pro-Russia parties, I mean how could Russia be better than the US for Germany? Are these people forgetting the differences between FRG and GDR?

Well some belive that Germany would be better of without the euro. And its a fair assumption.
Southern countries would probably better off without the euro too.

[Stavroforos]

I'm guessing for some people, "pro-Russian" would be the same thing as "not anti-Russian."

[Mangalore]

Well, the issue is the fragmentation of the left spectrum creating a problem that the center left SPD is squeezed between the center right CDU and the Left and Greens. The only options for the SPD is a center coalition which means SPD+CDU or a left coalition which means SPD+Greens+Left. Currently however every attempt to make deals with the Left fail and there is tons of bad blood between the SPD and Left (precisely because a lot of West german politicians joining the Left withdrew from the SPD), it's the usual problem of the more similar two factions are ideological the more contempt they have for each other.

That however means everything short of the SPD and the Left merging again (consider that most the Left voters originated from the left wing of the SPD) you get a complex problem for a left leaning party. That said the SPD is good at self deprecation and being her own biggest enemy. As the saying goes, the old aunt SPD (being the oldest democratic party in germany) doesn't need an opposition, it's her own biggest critic.


I'm a bit surprised at the assertion of the Greens wanting a coalition of the Left. This notion essentially dissolved the instance foreign policy became a topic because the Greens and Left are entirely incompatible in that area which got them both laughed at as an entirely ineffective opposition. A bigger problem of the Greens is their inability from growing beyond their niche demographic. At every attempt at they stumbled.


Overall I vote more tactical than anything. I'm of similar alignment as you and I find it very easy to support the SPD simply because she gets constantly trounced in elections atm so I find supporting them is simply necessary to keep one center left party halfway in the run.


Essentially Merkel is playing it brilliantly from a power perspective. She moved the CDU left thus depriving the SPD of many center votes while she has trouble convincing on the left as well thus being the only stable block. That said Merkel is not being loved for that by a lot of right leaning conservative folks so while she knocked out any immediate inner party threat people would love her to stop all that.

[Astaroth]

I actually did something similar in the past so far, the only problem being that I definitely don't want to support Merkel and especially not Seehofer and his ilk.

A vote for the SPD in the current climate inevitably ends up supporting a CDU/CSU led coalition or ultimately a coalition with the Left...

I'm increasingly getting the impression that a political view like my own is simply not very common or popular in Germany. A majority of the population is probably at least somewhat conservative (most of which vote for the CDU because 1) the SPD might still have the "worker" stigma and 2) everything to the right of the CDU quickly becomes too brown for most people). However, most people who are a bit more left are often quickly very radical (see the Left) and despise the SPD for its reforms under Schröder.

Of course voting for the SPD at least still strengthens the center left in the current climate, but who knows how long it takes until the SPD accepts moving further left and enter into an alliance with the Left. The only alternative for the SPD is the CDU, but that means populist nonsense like Betreuungsgeld and PKW-Maut.

[ShockBlast]

My political views are incompatible with any of that. I would call myself a social democrat -- I am strongly pro individual rights (could be called a "traditionally liberal" view), but also in favour of a social safety net with universal healthcare, social security and insurances (more of a left-wing position). I am strongly pro-securalism and opposed to politics of fear based on religious or other prejudice (another reason not to vote CDU). Internationally, I'm pro-EU, pro-US (but anti-Iraq War) and pro-Israel (but against settlements in the West Bank). I support German military involvement in the world as long as it falls under a UN or NATO mission and is requested by our allies (another position basically no party supports). I am against Russian appeasement and in favour of enforcing international law with sanctions.

Just to round off the picture: pro choice (with restrictions in later stages of the pregnancy unless there is no other option), pro-environment, anti-death penalty (duh, I'm European!), anti-private gun ownership, pro-science.

You shouldn`t have said "but" , social democracy is by default pro-social security and universal healthcare etc.

I have to say that we are quite a like, with a small variation when it comes to pro-US, only if it is in our interests - so no boot liking just for the sake of doing it, and pro-Israel - Israel was created because the world felt guilty of what it happened to them but they have no right acting like dicks against the Palestinians - Palestine should be it`s own state and should have as big as an army it wants.Both states should co-exist.

I have to say, running away for the casting your vote is not something you should do.I guess you are stuck with the Greens as the only decent party even if they will ally with the other parties.

We both need a decent center-left party who doesn`t lick Russian boots and is neutral towards the military.

[hellheaven1987]

I don't know in Germany people actually vote for party instead for people... I am shocked, really.

[AqD]

I don't know in Germany people actually vote for party instead for people... I am shocked, really.

which makes no difference. Individuals are nothing without the support of their party and lobbyists. They're only figureheads.

[hellheaven1987]

which makes no difference. Individuals are nothing without the support of their party and lobbyists. They're only figureheads.

Ya, until they backstab their party.

[Mangalore]

Ya, until they backstab their party.

In germany the party backstabs you.

[Diamat]

I wouldn't worry too much about a party fitting you perfectly. Indeed, your views will continue to change - and should change - as you grow older. Joining a party often results in an ossification of one's political views. Personally, I despise the very idea of parties, but that's best left to another debate.

[eisenkopf]

@Astaroth, Mangalore

Can I join the club? I have similar headaches. I think it all boils down to the desintegration of the social liberals after the FDP toppled Schmidt. After that, the social liberals left the FDP and mostly went to the SPD. The problem is that the SPD has become an truly illiberal party, and has adopted the CDU's and Greens' claims to knowing how everyone should live their lives. The social liberals were absorbed without leaving a trace. Today, the overwhelming majority of Germany's policitians is illiberal, and the few remaining liberals are pro-business sell-outs. Instead of tackling the imminent privacy issues in the Digital Age, all major parties are busy doling out financial favors to their (presumed) constituency. Everyone who whines loud enough gets their share of the cake, until nothing is left for those who truly need it - the children who grow-up in disadvantaged (poor, uneducated) families. I have come long way (I first voted FDP, then Greens, then SPD) only to realize that the only party who supports my views has attracted every single crazy egomaniac that hadn't found his stage in a Verein yet (yes, I am talking about the Pirates). Germans never had much interest in liberalism (not even the watered-down social version I support), but now it is officially dead. And so is my inclination to vote. I have voted for the lesser evil for too long. After having lived abroad for almost a decade, I will soon finally unregister from the Einwohnermeldeamt (after having renewed my passports for another ten years) and then go into hiding in my political exile. :-)