Ratification of Tribunous

[Professor420]

Thanks to Spiff for the formatting, and Mudd for the Curial Elections bit:
Version .3, updated 10/18/06

Network Administrators & Moderators

Tribounos - Magistrate
Any Triumvir has full powers to hire or fire Tribounos at will but, while retaining their powers, have delegated the elections of them to the Curia. Tribounos are voted into their position by the Curia (see Curia Elections section below). Tribounos who are appointed by a Triumvir must face a Curial ratification vote within four days of their appointment as per the Curial Elections section of the Syntagma. If a Tribounos fails to be ratified in this way, he may not be appointed again for one month. Citizens with one month experience in either Citizen rank are eleigible to stand for Tribounos.

The total number of Tribounos, their assignments and powers are set by the Censor. If a Citizen is elected by the Curia then he will undergo a vote on Patrician status after gaining one month's experience. If they are already performing another function, as indicated in Appendix A, then this vote is initiated immediately.

Curial Elections

When a Curial election is required, and the Triumvirate deems it necessary, the Curator or Senior Staff will open a Qualification thread for the vacant position and post a relevant announcement in the Symposium. Applicants to the vacant position must post their reasons for wishing to participate and relevant qualifications within this qualifications thread, which shall remain open for no longer than one week.

Qualifying candidates are Citizens with at least one month of experience in either Citizen rank, and must also meet any further requirements stipulated by the specific position they are applying for. All qualifying applicants not vetoed by Staff go forward to a vote open for one week. If more than six eligible users apply and are not vetoed, the Staff may select the six they believe to be the most suitable to be voted on.

Where one position is to be filled, the candidate who receives the plurality of votes receives the position. Where two or more positions are to be filled, only one poll need be held, and the candidates with the highest votes are appointed. In the case of ties there will be a run-off vote between the tied members lasting three days. When the Curia is required to hold a ratification of an appointed Tribounos, a vote is opened in the Curia Votes subforum. In order for the candidate to be ratified, a two-thirds (66.67%) majority is required.

Appendix 1

When enacted, all present and future appointed Tribounos shall be subject to Curial ratification as stated in the text of this bill.

I think it's about time we talk about this. There have been a large number of appointments even before the Crisis, and the Curia has no legal recourse.

11 days from the date of appointment (4 days+1 week of voting) is more than enough to resolve the crisis the Trib was appointed for, and if he fails his vote, and no elections are held, another Tribunous can be appointed if there is need, who will be subject to the same procedure.

[Publius]

I support. This enables a system of checks and balances. I should also think that Adminstrator's would be fully confident in their appointees that they could be ratified in such a manner. If not, then chances are the person should not have been appointed to begin with. This is a fair and balanced way of dealing with our current predicament, and I throw my full support behind it.

[Ragabash]

Does this bill have administration and OgresNet approval or is this just a suggestion. :hmmm:

[Professor420]

Why does it need administrative and ON approval?

[Hader]

Dont forget that some recent Trib appointments are only temporary, not permanent.

[Publius]

Dont forget that some recent Trib appointments are only temporary, not permanent.

Then by the end of the 4 day duration they should either be put up for ratification or stripped of their rank.

[Richard the Lionheart]

Then by the end of the 4 day duration they should either be put up for ratification or stripped of their rank.

No. It's purely up to the Admins.

[Publius]

No. It's purely up to the Admins.

I am putting it into the context of the proposal we are supposed to be discussing here.

[Professor420]

No. It's purely up to the Admins.

HG you are not a Patrician and thus have no legal rights to post in the Curia. Interestingly enough, though, you do have a legal right to debate in the CdeC. And I suggest you use it, as your Ostrakon is currently being discussed.

[scottishranger]

Because frankly Proffesor you cannot strip him of his badge and mod. rights, only an admin and above can. So this is impossible without Staff cooperation. Maybe the Curia will not recognize him, but that does not stop him from moderating does it?

[Spiff]

I cant support this as it is not productive - since it will just be vetoed. The sentiment is in the right place, and in a perfect world i would support.


In any case it should be worded more like this

Network Administrators & Moderators

Tribounos - Magistrate
Any Triumvir has full powers to hire or fire Tribounos at will but, while retaining their powers, have delegated the elections of them to the Curia. Tribounos are voted into their position by the Curia (see Curia Elections section below). Tribounos who are appointed by a Triumvir must however face Curial ratification within four days of their appointment as per the Curial Elections section of the Syntagma. If a Tribounos fails to be ratified in this way, he may not be appointed again for one month. Citizens with one month experience in either Citizen rank are eleigible to stand for Tribounos.

The total number of Tribounos, their assignments and powers are set by the Censor. If a Citizen is elected by the Curia then he will undergo a vote on Patrician status after gaining one month's experience. If they are already performing another function, as indicated in Appendix A, then this vote is initiated immediately.

Appendix 1

When enacted, all present and future appointed Tribounos shall be subject to Curial ratification as stated in the text of this bill.

[Professor420]

Indeed, nothing is possible without staff cooperation. And by going through the proper channels, and having a popular vote, and showing them that it is the will of the Curia, and it is in their best interests to 'cooperate,' then you get staff cooperation. Because, as we found out, its not so easy to tell a bunch of devoted members that their popular will means nothing to staff.

If we, as a Curia, decide that we want this amendment, then either Staff will have to cooperate, or use their veto, which is not something to be done lightly.

[scottishranger]

H&G might not but I am a patrician, I was one of the first to be voted on by the new CdC, you were voted on too I might add.
And please, what in this forces the admins to make the Curia ratify new mods? I understand that the Curia does not want to lose this power, heck I thought it was one of the greatest attributes of this site.

[Publius]

H&G might not but I am a patrician, I was one of the first to be voted on by the new CdC, you were voted on too I might add.
And please, what in this forces the admins to make the Curia ratify new mods? I understand that the Curia does not want to lose this power, heck I thought it was one of the greatest attributes of this site.

Nothing forces them and nothing should have to. It is a sad day indeed for the site when there can be no communication and compromise between Staff and Curia. The prothalamos is meant to be a place of discussion, yet it seems many here currently dont care about discussing the merits of this proposal but only pointing out that staff has the power to reject this proposal. That is their right, but it is not the purpose of this thread.

[scottishranger]

Yes you are right, I am sorry for derailing this thread Publius.

Though I personally do not see the point...I will stay out of discussion because I have nothing to add to this.

[Tom Paine]

I'd like to get the Trium reactions before pursuing this, but the idea is a good one; however more flexibility is needed, in many ways.

[Perikles]

Well i support, as much as my non rank gives me...

But anyway, I hope these appointments are just temporary so this won't be needed...

[imb39]

Well as a former Hex member, I cannot support this action. I have urged, in the past, for appointments and I think that the Powers that Be were perfectly entitled to do so given the crisis. It does not matter what precipitated this crisis, however, but the Curia should not seek to have this sort of power over Staff.

This does not imply any feelings about individual moderators, but of the process outlined within this thread. I am in no position to judge entirely fairly on moderators anyway as I do not know what is being said in Staff. I can think of one moderator who I helped an awful lot. He improved a fair bit over the summer (doubtless others helped him too). Quick judgements will not be helpful. I only hope that he grows into his new role with fewer problems...

[Belisarius]

Well as a former Hex member, I cannot support this action. I have urged, in the past, for appointments and I think that the Powers that Be were perfectly entitled to do so given the crisis. It does not matter what precipitated this crisis, however, but the Curia should not seek to have this sort of power over Staff.

This does not imply any feelings about individual moderators, but of the process outlined within this thread. I am in no position to judge entirely fairly on moderators anyway as I do not know what is being said in Staff. I can think of one moderator who I helped an awful lot. He improved a fair bit over the summer (doubtless others helped him too). Quick judgements will not be helpful. I only hope that he grows into his new role with fewer problems...

For the first time in 3 days I agree with imb.

[Silver Guard]

I'm not sure who to support here
On one side we have hastily appointed Tribs and Strategos, many of which I consider completely unfit for the position
On the other we have the Curia gaining power over staff, which is wrong, they should have leaverage rights, but not full power

Besides, who would we replace them with?