Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 57

Thread: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    Posts
    9,119

    Default People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    I started re-reading one of my favorite English short-stories, "Flowers for Algernon". It did not take long before i felt very sad, despite knowing what the story is about already. I hadn't read it for more than a decade, and it made me sigh on account of the protagonist's will "to get smart".

    In this city, like in most of Europe or other reasonably urban centers, one rarely sees people of very notably lower IQ than the average. The story i was reading is about a person who has a few points below an IQ of 70.

    Last week, as i was returning on the bus from a part of the city where i probably never have been before, there was a person with a very low IQ talking to the bus-driver who very likely knew him from previous rides on that very bus. The person was possibly in his early 20s, and i think his head was shaped in a way which would imply he is suffering from Down Syndrome. I did not actually look at his body much, but i could not help listening to the characteristic fluctuation in his voice, which reminded me of preschool children and their anxious way of trying to communicate when they have something they wish to hide from the adult.
    That man was at times speaking more loudly- once he suddently cursed a driver in front of the bus, due to some bad manners on the road that the bus-driver had noted shortly before that outburst- but mostly he sounded like he was aware of a risk in being in the same closed environment with a multitude of people he did not know at all.

    In retrospect i wondered what exactly his life is like. Surely the anxiety does not help, but if it was not there would he be better off in the case he continued to frequently go outside and ride buses?

    I can easily believe that he too would agree with the fictional protagonist of Flowers for Algeron, that if he can become smarter, that would be his dream in this life. And, of course, he cannot know that other sorts of problems can easily appear to hunt down people regardless of their normal or higher IQ, and perhaps that the face of those winged Harpies is not particularly more refined than those he has come to know so well by now, and the memories linger on in his frail and nervous tone of voice.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  2. #2
    Hoplite of Ilis's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hellas
    Posts
    2,121

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    They are what they are. Nothing can be done.

  3. #3
    Euphoric's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    KALIFOЯNIA, AMEЯIKA
    Posts
    471

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    You know what's even sadder? The difference between my IQ and the average person's IQ is the same as the difference between the average person's IQ and the IQ of a bonobo. What's worse is I am expected to stoop down to their level, if I ever want to have any social interaction in any capacity. I also tutor, so I have to attempt to instruct them, and because I tutor in political science, I get to see how especially ignorant the demos is about the democracy they rule, that I am subject to. I don't pity the stupid. They are the bane of my ing existence.
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

  4. #4

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    If you can figure out a cure for narcissism and sociopath, you might be onto something, otherwise, lock'em up, but this is an IQ thread.

    I would like to be smarter, but only in certain fields. The smarter you are the lonelier you get as there are less people to talk to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Euphoric View Post
    You know what's even sadder? The difference between my IQ and the average person's IQ is the same as the difference between the average person's IQ and the IQ of a bonobo. What's worse is I am expected to stoop down to their level, if I ever want to have any social interaction in any capacity. I also tutor, so I have to attempt to instruct them, and because I tutor in political science, I get to see how especially ignorant the demos is about the democracy they rule, that I am subject to. I don't pity the stupid. They are the bane of my ing existence.
    Do they greet you like a Bonobo? That could be awkward.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  5. #5
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    16,026

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Euphoric View Post
    You know what's even sadder? The difference between my IQ and the average person's IQ is the same as the difference between the average person's IQ and the IQ of a bonobo. What's worse is I am expected to stoop down to their level, if I ever want to have any social interaction in any capacity. I also tutor, so I have to attempt to instruct them, and because I tutor in political science, I get to see how especially ignorant the demos is about the democracy they rule, that I am subject to. I don't pity the stupid. They are the bane of my ing existence.
    So you are you claiming ~150? Wow as soon as that CV and test results shows up I will be sort of not really impressed.

    Great you really good (supposedly) at a specific test that often has no relative implication for life and if you are so intelligent why are you wasting time on this web site?

    ----------------

    In any case OP - I find as you have guessed IQ to be a deeply flawed concept. It measure a few vectors of intelligence and says nothing much at all about any number of skills that you could call intelligence in so many other areas.

    I tutor in political science
    Poly Sci set yourself a really high bar huh?
    Last edited by conon394; April 17, 2014 at 07:37 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #6

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    if you are so intelligent why are you wasting time on this web site?
    That's an odd question. In your opinion there are no discussions here that would be appealing to someone with a high IQ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  7. #7

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    That's an odd question. In your opinion there are no discussions here that would be appealing to someone with a high IQ?
    It really depends on the day.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  8. #8
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    16,026

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    That's an odd question. In your opinion there are no discussions here that would be appealing to someone with a high IQ?
    No - rather

    I question why anyone who claims a high IQ and seems to loath having to lower himself to discuss stuff with plebeians and good god be a teacher to said low brow types of the 'Demos' would bother to post on what is essentially a democratic and open message board likely to be include the very people he disdains

    That is aside from the fact I have very little respect for the IQ test and anyone who likes to inflate/stroke their ego out of what is a highly artificial test that measures only a very small set of vectors of potential intelligence or success. It measure what it does well enough I suppose to some extent but it says little really about a person's intelligent viewed in a more holistic fashion.
    Last edited by conon394; April 17, 2014 at 04:00 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  9. #9

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    No - rather

    I question why anyone who claims a high IQ and seems to loath having to lower himself to discuss stuff with plebeians and good god be a teacher said low brow types of the 'Demos' would bother to post on what is essentially a democratic and open message board likely to be include the very people he disdains
    Outside of a few, I think the IQ of the board posters is higher than average, markedly so. Average I think would be closer to youtube comments.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  10. #10

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    No - rather

    I question why anyone who claims a high IQ and seems to loath having to lower himself to discuss stuff with plebeians and good god be a teacher to said low brow types of the 'Demos' would bother to post on what is essentially a democratic and open message board likely to be include the very people he disdains

    That is aside from the fact I have very little respect for the IQ test and anyone who likes to inflate/stroke their ego out of what is a highly artificial test that measures only a very small set of vectors of potential intelligence or success. It measure what it does well enough I suppose to some extent but it says little really about a person's intelligent viewed in a more holistic fashion.
    This is an admirable post, conon394. Teaching is a good profession, worthy of those called to it. Those who act as mentors enter into an even more intimate relationship of benevolence to help the uneducated. We cannot enlighten anyone. The Other must choose it. Some disregard education, consider it of no use, and hence devalue teachers. Few devalue mentors though.

    Why? Mentors are those specific educators who cared in spite of their students being unenlightened or reticent to the process of becoming enlightened. If we despise those folks, then we will fail some who will change their mind. A teacher can care or not care about their student. A mentor always by definition cares. It is not suffice to only be a disconnected teacher and be a good one worthy of the title.

    Intellectual snobbery is demonstrating an unenlightened state. If all teachers became intellectual snobs, then no one would get educated. Certainly no mentors would arise.

    The main problem is the unenlightened not considering that they themselves belong in that category. By definition many are in such a state, and it takes real caring AND education to help them begin the process of intentional education.

    When I speak of cretins, I speak not of the plebians, for many plebians deeply desire education and some finally acquire it. I speak of the cretins who devalue education, who are smug in their ignorance. Who can tolerate them easily?

    One doesn't disdain those lacking mental faculties, but cares for them, even if they respond with anitipathy. If a mind is damaged, then behavioral issues will come about. Look at brain injuried veterans. Their frustration at losing some part of themselves, a loss of self-identity and autonomy, a lack of short term memory resulting in problems doing things like grocery shopping. These things lead to alterations in their behavior and create anger.

    Not every person with a mental disability acquires it at birth. In the USA, 5.3 million people have had a brain injury that is long term. Because this is a general term, and based upon how the brain was injured, it can manifest in unusual ways, with age being a factor, as well as the support network of the patient.

    Being enlightened means being patient and compassionate, not in some wear your heart on your sleeve way, but in a pragmatic kind manner.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; April 17, 2014 at 04:58 PM.

  11. #11
    Euphoric's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    KALIFOЯNIA, AMEЯIKA
    Posts
    471

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    So you are you claiming ~150? Wow as soon as that CV and test results shows up I will be sort of not really impressed.
    What?

    Great you really good (supposedly) at a specific test that often has no relative implication for life and if you are so intelligent why are you wasting time on this web site?
    Firstly, I think this site is one of the more intelligent sites I've personally stumbled upon. Secondly, individuals in the higher IQ categories are actually fairly unproductive members of society in general. Just look at Mensa. Or people with Aspergers.

    Poly Sci set yourself a really high bar huh?
    Hah. You have no idea how often I hear that. I'm Pre-law and I'm currently dual-majoring in Middle East Studies.

    seems to loath having to lower himself to discuss stuff with plebeians and good god be a teacher
    Don't worry - I quit some time ago because it was far too depressing. One girl, for example, came to my session and told me that she was "super interested" in learning about all 6 branches of government. I hesitantly asked, "Six?" and she responded, "Yeah, everyone knows about the six branches of government. There's the lobbies, the workers, the legiators [whatever the that means], the judges, the internet, and the President. I don't remember the other two branches." There were so many things wrong with her comment that I felt some of my brain cells self-immolate in protest. That sort of is why I don't tutor Political Science anymore, and its not the only example of pure, unadulterated stupidity that I've come across while tutoring. I also used to tutor for Philosophy and that was even worse.

    to said low brow types of the 'Demos' would bother to post on what is essentially a democratic and open message board likely to be include the very people he disdains
    The type of people I disdain are average Joes. The sort of people who work to live rather than live to work. The sort of people who vote for a politician because they would like to have a beer with them. The sort of people who question Evolution or think the world is 6,000 years old because scientists are eggheads or whatever. You know, cattle.

    That is aside from the fact I have very little respect for the IQ test
    Now this is interesting. Why?

    and anyone who likes to inflate/stroke their ego
    Yeah, that's me.
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

  12. #12
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    6,741

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    So you are you claiming ~150? Wow as soon as that CV and test results shows up I will be sort of not really impressed.

    Great you really good (supposedly) at a specific test that often has no relative implication for life and if you are so intelligent why are you wasting time on this web site?
    IQ is based on several issues that have great implications in real life.

    One of my friends is in Mensa and is quite probably the fastest person I've ever met when it comes to putting on new windscreen wipers on cars. Essentially he just look at the components and can see how the mechanism is made to fit the windscreen wipers on the car (despite him only getting a car last year).

    Personally I hate putting new windscreen wipers on my car but I am quite good at it as I just take the time to figure out how the pieces fit together and then I put them on.

    And as I see it these two methods are a great example of why intelligence is a manageable but important factor in success.

    Intelligence provide you with the capacity to deal with really complex issues.

    But hard work and a practical mindset is much more important in most situations as you will need hard work regardless of your intellgience and most of the time you can make problems far less complex if you think a bit about the problem.

    In my field of work I can safely say that no one got low intelligence. But only a few of my colleagues rely on intelligence as their main tool in becoming successful.

  13. #13
    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,996

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    I think if we're talking about in terms of a low IQ due to a leaning disability (i believe that's the correct term?), then i personally find them (courtesy of my partner being involved in a day-care center for them) as actually quite evil.

    Now hear me out, i perhaps sensationalize! But by this i mean that while they appear much as Kyriakos say's quite vulnerable and 'cute' (for want of a better term), their actually typically very manipulative in getting their own way, and sometimes downright cruel to each other...though i don't particularity believe they themselves see their actions as cruel in the main, though they are aware of 'right' and 'wrong'. I think perhaps a better term is 'selfish'. They'll wind each other up, manipulate each other and their carers to get their own way. But they'll do so as a child would to other children and adults. So by no means do i mean that their bad people. It's just they're cunning little blighters sometimes! And incredibly set in their ways and patterns. It's why i have total respect for people who do that job, as from my perspective- i can well believe how easy it is to fall into client abuse! Due to my impatience and general anti-social outlook.

    If of course we're merely perhaps talking about 'stupid' people, then the situation is rather different and i spend my whole time trying to avoid their company. One of my partners friends was like a nightmare like that- She was voted for the BNP simply because, and i really do quote 'Their leaflet looked pretty'... the fact she had no social empathy to boot just made time spent with her unbearable, she's now baby-trapped a chap still in his teens, who's just as bad as she is. So yes- Learning Disabled adults- i have a lot of respect for in a way. A great many of them are actually totally aware that they are different, and will do their utmost to do just 'average' things. In my experience they enjoy doing things like volunteer work or even being able to live on their own (within a secure residential area- by that i mean staffed...not barb wire!), it's very inspiring in a way, their also well aware that their quality of life isn't necessarily bad at all if they make the most of the opportunities presented, hence a lot of them live in very nice flats, staffed and will participate in day-care where their taught the basics of life 'alone' (usually in preparation for when their carer, who are usually their parents dies) so they at least can do some stuff independently.

    But just plain stupid people, i can't stand. There is no excuse to not want to learn and better yourself. But the majority of people like that take the easy way of things, and scrape by usually in a manner quite unfair to those around them,
    House of Caesars: Under the Patronage of Char Aznable

    Proud Patron of the roguishly suave Gatsby


  14. #14
    GussieFinkNottle's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Britain
    Posts
    2,239

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Though many are wary around them, a sad fact is people with mental problems or disabilities are far more likely to have crimes perpetrated against them than they are to commit a crime themselves.
    A home without books is a body without soul - Marcus Tullius Cicero

    If you rep me, please leave your name. Thx

  15. #15
    G-Megas-Doux's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,607

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    I would say that the fictional protagonist is actually missing the point. Almost everyone has the thought not if I was smatter. But if I could fit in x y and z would not happen. People hat being the target and standing out when its anything but praise.

    @Euphoric

    Laughs...
    Of course one of the most important things a person can do is when interacting with people is not to alienate them and that requires not only a strong intelligence but endurance as sometime you will be caught off guard and the person will hold it against you forever.

    Social interaction is easier with your peers when there is little intellectual difference or social. The greater the difference the harder it is for both parties. If you are doing your best to condescend to a person and they know this is what you are doing how do you think they feel when they are doing their best and must know that to you they are intellectually insignificant? It might be the bane of your existence but I am sure it is a humiliation and chore to them as well.



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Was looking for a Morrowind sig to use as big fan of the game found this from here so crediting from source http://paha13.deviantart.com/art/Morrowind-259489058

    Also credit avatar from.
    http://www.members.shaw.ca/nickyart2/Avatars/Page2.htm

  16. #16
    Euphoric's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    KALIFOЯNIA, AMEЯIKA
    Posts
    471

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Megas-Doux View Post
    If you are doing your best to condescend to a person and they know this is what you are doing how do you think they feel when they are doing their best and must know that to you they are intellectually insignificant?
    I used to try to be civil and respectful when I was naive, before I realized how pervasive stupidity really is.

    It might be the bane of your existence but I am sure it is a humiliation and chore to them as well.
    I don't know where you're from, but here in Southern California, people actually take pride in their stupidity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Do they greet you like a Bonobo? That could be awkward.
    Sometimes, it depends on what we're drinking.
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

  17. #17
    G-Megas-Doux's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,607

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Euphoric View Post
    I used to try to be civil and respectful when I was naive, before I realized how pervasive stupidity really is.



    I don't know where you're from, but here in Southern California, people actually take pride in their stupidity.



    Sometimes, it depends on what we're drinking.
    Yes stupidity is ubiquitous. Just remember that people can still be unpredictable on occasion.



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Was looking for a Morrowind sig to use as big fan of the game found this from here so crediting from source http://paha13.deviantart.com/art/Morrowind-259489058

    Also credit avatar from.
    http://www.members.shaw.ca/nickyart2/Avatars/Page2.htm

  18. #18

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Canadians are not bad people once you get to know them.

  19. #19
    G-Megas-Doux's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,607

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    Canadians are not bad people once you get to know them.
    Canada cant be that bad. They gave the world William Shatner.



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Was looking for a Morrowind sig to use as big fan of the game found this from here so crediting from source http://paha13.deviantart.com/art/Morrowind-259489058

    Also credit avatar from.
    http://www.members.shaw.ca/nickyart2/Avatars/Page2.htm

  20. #20

    Default Re: People with very low IQ--What do you think of them?

    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

    "...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " ~ Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey


    Do each of us have political, social, philosophical, and spiritual responsibility to take care of those with decreased mental capacity or not?

    There was a time when nutrional defficiency in things like iodine resulted in lots of cretinism. There used to be lots of neural tube birth defects due a lack of vitamins in common foods, a problem easily solved by fortification, but could be eliminated simply by responsible corporations selling edible nutrious food.

    There was a time when those who were mentally defficient were locked up far and away in rural institution. That worked for a while, but then they were released during one administration, told they must go to the urban areas, and literally helped exacerbate homelessness in America.
    http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/conse...tally-ill.html

    There was a time when the mentally defficient were surgically sterilized, not allowed to have relationships, and considered idiots who polluted the gene pool.
    http://www.uvm.edu/~lkaelber/eugenics/
    What would you think of people who allowed those things to happen. Were they responsible and acting ethically? Or did changing old ways of considering them result in bettering the condition of the mentally defficient, who are our brothers, sisters, friends, and neighbors?

    Do you blame the person who has a decreased capacity for learning and understanding when they have behavioral issues? We hold all people accountable, but to hold them equally accounable is not logical.

    Did you know a great number of people have mental defficiencies and are imprisoned in America. Why? Because there are not facilities to oversee them.
    http://nicic.gov/mentalillness
    "Mentally ill persons increasingly receive care provided by corrections agencies. In 1959, nearly 559,000 mentally ill patients were housed in state mental hospitals (Lamb, 1998). A shift to "deinstitutionalize" mentally ill persons had, by the late 1990s, dropped the number of persons housed in public psychiatric hospitals to approximately 70,000 (CorrectCare, 1999). As a result, mentally ill persons are more likely to live in local communities. Some come into contact with the criminal justice system.

    In a 2006 Special Report, the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) estimated that 705,600 mentally ill adults were incarcerated in State prisons, 78,800 in Federal prisons and 479,900 in local jails. In addition, research suggests that "people with mental illnesses are overrepresented in probation and parole populations at estimated rates ranging from two to four time the general population" (Prins and Draper, 2009). Growing numbers of mentally ill offenders have strained correctional systems. "

    http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/09/05/u...ons-quadrupled
    "New federal statistics reveal that the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons and jails has quadrupled over the past six years, Human Rights Watch said today. More than half of all prison and state inmates now report mental health problems, including symptoms of major depression, mania and psychotic disorders, according to a just-released federal Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) report, Mental Health Problems of Prison and Jail Inmates.

    In 1998, the BJS reported there were an estimated 283,000 prison and jail inmates who suffered from mental health problems. That number is now estimated to be 1.25 million. The rate of reported mental health disorders in the state prison population is five times greater (56.2 percent) than in the general adult population (11 percent)."


    Not all of these have low IQ, but some are so disturbed and so long without proper treatment, that determining IQ would be problematic.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; April 16, 2014 at 10:39 PM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •