Post-Apocalyptica (Poll Added; Read OP First)

[Dirty Chai]

Read the OP, here, before voting.

I. Societal Apocalypse:
- As detailed and suggested by Agamemnon, society generally devolves intentionally, most people leaving cities behind to live as tribes and simple folk.
Extreme war and past 'evils' have pushed humanity to make this collective decision.

II. Nuclear Fallout:
- This is self-explanatory

III. Compromise Between I and II:
- This entails both the societal devolution of option I and the destruction of option II.
Weapons, not necessarily nukes, have devastated areas of the landscape and distorted its appearance.
People have left the cities and to live as tribes and simple folk.

IV. Revolution-style Game:
- All electricity in the world is disabled. Cars and trains stop in their place, and fly-by-wire planes fall from the sky.
People are forced to adapt to a world without electricity. Governments and public order fall, and warlords rise up.
This can be a fictional or real world.

V. Factions:
- This is a version of any of the above options where the players play as factions, not characters.

[Lucius Malfoy]

We should first consider the setting. That is the biggest priority.
- Do we want a modern day setting? Or maybe a futuristic setting on Earth or another planet?
- Should it be a natural event that caused the apocalypse or a man-made event?
- Should we use outside references (Metro 2033, Fallout, etc etc) to help form the basis? Or should we just make it as unique as possible?

And so on and so on.

[Xion]

I wouldn't mind zombies, but not in a traditional role nor as the primary cause of the apocalypse.

Going off Agg's list of proposals :

Aggy's Proposal (Unknown event, cryo-frozen survivors in the same world as we live in, but far into a future where society has regressed to tribalism and abandoned technology and cities) :
Interesting. This idea reminds of Act I of the Space IH, just without the players landing on a new world and dealing with an alien environment(sort of.) Would any animals have evolved during the time lapse between freezing and thawing of the survivors depending on what the unknown event is?
Nuclear Apocalypse:
One problem I have with this is will we have to completely reinvent the flora and fauna of this world or will we copy that from a different world?
Zombie Apocalypse:
I'm against this as zombies are kind of overdone and the discussion of Romero style zombie vs other views could go on for a long time. But having "zombies" but not zombies could be interesting. By which I mean probably some type of mutant.
Technological Apocalypse:
I like this as a part of the apocalypse, but not as the main cause. Unless the community decides to go with a Revolution styled game.

[Dirty Chai]

If civilization is generally destroyed, most power grids might be down anyway.
So the technological blackout tends to go hand-in-hand with the more devastating versions of the apocalypse.

[Pericles of Athens]

I haven't been active on the RP forum here for some time, but I'd likely return for a Fallout-like Post-Apocalyptic game. I'm not saying that the whole thing should be a ripoff of Fallout, but the general idea (IE. Set after a nuclear apocalypse with mutants and all sorts of goodies like that, oh and of course humans attempting to survive from simple raiders and tribals to people attempting to reconstruct civilization as it was or as they want it to be) could easily form the foundation of the game.

[Agamemnon]

We should first consider the setting. That is the biggest priority.
- Do we want a modern day setting? Or maybe a futuristic setting on Earth or another planet?
- Should it be a natural event that caused the apocalypse or a man-made event?
- Should we use outside references (Metro 2033, Fallout, etc etc) to help form the basis? Or should we just make it as unique as possible?

And so on and so on.

-I vote a modern-day setting or, if it's my proposal, a futuristic setting, but not sci-fi (as in it takes place in the future, but the tech is modern-day). Sci-fi games just don't interest me all that much for some reason.
-I think it would definitely have to be man-made, whether that be weapons or philosophy. There isn't really any natural event short of a cataclysmic asteroid impact that would give us the scenario we want.

I wouldn't mind zombies, but not in a traditional role nor as the primary cause of the apocalypse.

Going off Agg's list of proposals :

Aggy's Proposal (Unknown event, cryo-frozen survivors in the same world as we live in, but far into a future where society has regressed to tribalism and abandoned technology and cities) :
Interesting. This idea reminds of Act I of the Space IH, just without the players landing on a new world and dealing with an alien environment(sort of.) Would any animals have evolved during the time lapse between freezing and thawing of the survivors depending on what the unknown event is?

I'm inclined to say no because I really don't want to make up new flora and fauna (and ideally this would take place maybe 100-200 years down the road, not long enough for evolution) but there could be exceptions.

Nuclear Apocalypse:
One problem I have with this is will we have to completely reinvent the flora and fauna of this world or will we copy that from a different world?

I think we could really keep present-day flora and fauna, but make it rare and weakened.

Zombie Apocalypse:
I'm against this as zombies are kind of overdone and the discussion of Romero style zombie vs other views could go on for a long time. But having "zombies" but not zombies could be interesting. By which I mean probably some type of mutant.

I can see a type of "zombie" in my scenario, but it would be more of a Morlock from The Time Machine race of humans than a zombie or even a true mutant "race". They would dwell in subways and such and represent workers and poor folks who fled into the abandoned tunnels of cities after the rest of society went on their weird hippie commune kick.

Technological Apocalypse:
I like this as a part of the apocalypse, but not as the main cause. Unless the community decides to go with a Revolution styled game.

I was kinda trying to stay away from a Revolution thing, but this would mostly go along with any other idea besides basic zombies. In my proposal, the power plants would have been shut off long ago, and may or may not still be in working order.

If civilization is generally destroyed, most power grids might be down anyway.
So the technological blackout tends to go hand-in-hand with the more devastating versions of the apocalypse.

Pretty much.

I haven't been active on the RP forum here for some time, but I'd likely return for a Fallout-like Post-Apocalyptic game. I'm not saying that the whole thing should be a ripoff of Fallout, but the general idea (IE. Set after a nuclear apocalypse with mutants and all sorts of goodies like that, oh and of course humans attempting to survive from simple raiders and tribals to people attempting to reconstruct civilization as it was or as they want it to be) could easily form the foundation of the game.

See, depending on the scenario, that might work for NPC groups, however I really don't think social reconstruction should be a big focus at least in the beginning for our group, as it will devolve into arguments about social structure and the like (I know I'd want a very social darwinian system, while others may want a communal system), which will either bring about the death of the game or, if the group becomes large enough, escalate into factional violence, which will make the game into a semi-wargame.

[Xion]

-I'd support a modern or slightly sci-fi setting.
-Man-made apocalypse.

I can see a type of "zombie" in my scenario, but it would be more of a Morlock from The Time Machine race of humans than a zombie or even a true mutant "race". They would dwell in subways and such and represent workers and poor folks who fled into the abandoned tunnels of cities after the rest of society went on their weird hippie commune kick.

Something like that could work.

I think we could really keep present-day flora and fauna, but make it rare and weakened.

Perhaps, would make it a bit easier than trying to create new flora and fauna, although this is something I think could be used from outside references to save time as an alternative idea.

If civilization is generally destroyed, most power grids might be down anyway.
So the technological blackout tends to go hand-in-hand with the more devastating versions of the apocalypse.

Good point.

See, depending on the scenario, that might work for NPC groups, however I really don't think social reconstruction should be a big focus at least in the beginning for our group, as it will devolve into arguments about social structure and the like (I know I'd want a very social darwinian system, while others may want a communal system), which will either bring about the death of the game or, if the group becomes large enough, escalate into factional violence, which will make the game into a semi-wargame.

Have to agree with this, players dividing into their own groups and stuff probably would be mid to late game. If it occurs at all.
-

[Pericles of Athens]

Yeah I was mostly talking about the back drop of the game there, our group of protagonists (assuming we could even keep the group together long enough IC) should be focused on survival and overcoming the general troubles faced by those who wander the wastes.

[Ace_General]

Oh, I know ruleset and system of RP and setting that is PERFECT for this type of game

Twilight 2000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_2000 This is essetnially lifted from the wiki entry

In 1995 a series of Sino-Soviet border conflicts expanded into general war between the Soviet Union and China. The Sino-Soviet war rapidly escalated from conventional warfare into exchanges of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. In 1996 a cabal of East German and West German military officers seek to reunify their country. Unified German forces stage acoup d'état against the Group of Soviet Forces in Germany. The US and NATO allies initially attempt to stay out of the war, but are quickly drawn into the European conflict.Between 1996 and 1997 a largely conventional war is fought between NATO and Warsaw Pact forces throughout Europe. There are limited exchanges of battlefield nuclear weapons, and chemical and biological weapons. During Thanksgiving 1997, the Soviet Union launches a surprise first strike against targets in the United States and Europe. The US and Great Britain launch retaliatory nuclear strikes against the Soviet Union.
In the aftermath of the nuclear exchanges, both blocs struggle to recover from the damage. The war continues - despite increasing shortages of men, equipment, and fuel. In the United States there is a breach between the civilian government and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. An open rift develops between "Civgov" (the civilian government) and "Milgov" (the military government), which leads to a low-intensity civil war.
By the summer of 2000, the European theater of operations had been fought to a near stalemate. In one final effort to break the deadlock and end the war NATO forces planned a summer offensive across Northern Poland and into the Baltics, but the offensive ground to a halt in the face of a Warsaw Pact counterattack. Several divisions & corps on each side were virtually eliminated. In the chaotic aftermath, supply lines are lost, high level command breaks down and armies in the European theater lose cohesion beyond the platoon unit. Some go “native’ and integrated with the militias of independent “free cities", others turned into gangs of marauding bandits and some small groups of surviving soldiers sought to find their way home.

Also, theres a whole series of other nasty conflicts, but such a system is believable, has a good ruleset, and is some very damned good RP

[Agamemnon]

Ace, the whole idea of being military and such doesn't interest me at the moment, and I don't think anyone else either.

Now, if we were to use something like that, I would incorporate it into my proposal as the reason the entire Western world decided to adopt transcendental philosophy and move out into tepees.

[Dirty Chai]

Transcendental? That has modern connotations of 'hippies' and rather peaceful implications.
I don't see the Roadwarrior happening if Trascendentalism is why industrialized civilization disappeared..

Wait, hold on.
Now I remember the intro to Nausicaa..
"In a few short centuries, industrial civilization had spread from the western fringes of Eurasia to sprawl across the face of the planet. Plundering the soil of its riches, fouling the air, and remolding lifeforms at will, this gargantuan industrial society had already peaked a thousand years after its foundation: ahead lay abrupt and violent decline. The cities burned, welling up as clouds of poison in the war remembered as the Seven Days of Fire. The complex and sophisticated technological superstructure was lost; almost all the surface of the Earth was transformed into a sterile wasteland. Industrial civilization was never rebuilt as mankind lived on through the long twilight years."

Personally, I'm rather in favor of a scenario where industrial civilization is completely lost in a rather devastating apocalypse.
Nausicaa approaches this from a more fantastical viewpoint, where industrial civilization became so powerful that it created intelligent weapons later known as the "Godwarriors" to fight each other.. Rather 'prophetically', the arrogance and greed of the industrialized world was destroyed in seven days by these man-made gods.
Hence, 'Babylon' had destroyed itself.
Nausicaa even has the 'Sea of Corruption' spreading over the world, which is gigantic toxic jungle full of giant insects. It's relatively unstoppable, and any attempts to push it back just make it worse.

Point is, I guess I've always loved the viewpoint that the apocalypse is all because of modern civilization and can even be seen as 'punishment' for it.
Or at least, perhaps many post-apocalyptic populations see it that way.

[Agamemnon]

Well I'll post what I just explained to LM:

Agamemnon: A massive world war happens at some point
Agamemnon: No nukes are used, but casualties are exponentially higher than WWI
Agamemnon: And chemical warfare is common
LM: you mean WWII right?
Agamemnon: Pretty sure WWI had higher casualties
Agamemnon: Like million-death battles
Agamemnon: Regardless
Agamemnon: The same sort of antiwar sentiment that took over Europe in the 20s
Agamemnon: Takes over
Agamemnon: But this time it's not just antiwar
Agamemnon: It's anti-modernity
LM: actually WWII had it bigger. 60 million died in WWII (2.5% of the world population). WWI was 37 million.
Agamemnon: Alright
Agamemnon: Sorry
LM: anyways keep going
Agamemnon: So basically a really large portion of the population decides to break away from society and join Transcendentalist sort of communes
Agamemnon: The ensuing economic struggles
Agamemnon: Caused by the departure of 10% of the population
Agamemnon: Drives more into poverty
Agamemnon: Driving more into the luddite communes
Agamemnon: Gradually resulting in humanity shifting back to pre-Classical tribal structures and society over the next 200 years
Agamemnon: Leaving only a small group of those too broke to escape the cities living in the cities
Agamemnon: Of whom some have been living like Detroiters
Agamemnon: And some have lived in the subways and become Gollum
LM: brb, I will read more when I come back
LM: but I see what you talking about
LM: and getting a picture here
Agamemnon: It's pretty far-fetched
Agamemnon: But essentially disillusionment and economic hardhship a la the European depression of the '20s and '30s destroys modern society entirely
LM is now Away.

That's basically my theory. We probably won't be fighting the other groups of people we find outside of cities, but they aren't going to be accepting of us either. My proposal is a lot less "political" than your idea sounds, at least to me, and at least given what I've been taught in AP European History, this sort of thing happened in a much less extreme way before, so it's somewhat realistic.

[Ace_General]

Well I'll post what I just explained to LM:


That's basically my theory. We probably won't be fighting the other groups of people we find outside of cities, but they aren't going to be accepting of us either. My proposal is a lot less "political" than your idea sounds, at least to me, and at least given what I've been taught in AP European History, this sort of thing happened in a much less extreme way before, so it's somewhat realistic.

Well essentially sounds sorta like what happened with the twilight 2000 setting, you have a world war III where you have a long conventional conflict, but with limited nuclear and chemical exchanges, and order slowly breaks down. But the thing is, I dont see people wilingly going back to the tribal level of society, nor even with that deminished level of "Normal civilization" being economically outcompeted by peopl with essentially a pre-industiral level of technology. Sure, the advanced people may not have computers or high tech manufacturing or huge heavy industry, im thinking they would be at like turn of the century level technology, they would be able to both absolutely butcher the tribal societies and still have a higher standard of life

And even in semi-tribal groups, I dont think people will willingly give up technological advances like firearms, railroads, radios, trucks and manufacturing. To me, the whole idea of the Luddite movement and Nausicans and stuff seems like some eco-socialist dream. Also, I think in this type of event, people wouldnt adopt new ideologies and whatnot, but cling to traditional beliefs, espeically religion. LIke I remember in several post apoccalyptic stuff the Roman Catholic church, with its social welfare services and comprehensive philosophy became very influential and respected

[Lucius Malfoy]

After a discussion, we thought up this as an idea. This idea would involve cryogenic sleep and quantum theory.

We are the survivors of a colonization mission to Mars. We left Earth a hopeful planet, a world in suspense. Unknown to the world, an event in space happened, a rip in the fabric of time and space, opened and caused our vessel to enact emergency measures. In order to preserve ourselves under this mysterious event, we went into cryogenic chambers. As we drifted to sleep, the danger we thought would simply pass had only just begun as our vessel was propelled into an alternative universe. We, the survivors, awoke expecting Mars, the great red giant, but instead, our gaze comes across a planet we don't even recognize. A planet ruined by a catastrophic event that plunged it into darkness and ruin. Only by landing upon the planet and seeing hints everywhere, we find out we are on Earth, but not the Earth we know. An Earth which, during this timeline, has experienced the apocalypse.

Its still not completely finished, but hopefully it gets the point around.

Suggestions? Questions? Yays? Nays?

[Pericles of Athens]

Snip

What was this apocalypse that destroyed Alt-Earth? Is there still sentient life, human or otherwise(mutant, alien, etc.), on Alt-Earth? What are things like, are there still inhabited cities (however damaged) or has everyone descended into Neo-Tribalism?

[Lucius Malfoy]

What was this apocalypse that destroyed Alt-Earth? Is there still sentient life, human or otherwise(mutant, alien, etc.), on Alt-Earth? What are things like, are there still inhabited cities (however damaged) or has everyone descended into Neo-Tribalism?

Well Aggy explains what destroyed the Alt-Earth.
Yes, there would be sentient life in the form of human (I wanna add mutated life to this though).
There are still heavily damaged cities that are partially inhabited. There are communities of people who live in isolated pockets. And there will be neo-tribalism.

Its still up in the air, we are just deciding the setting then adding in the details.

[Agamemnon]

Well a lot of folks did abandon much of that stuff for a utopian dream historically, it was called the Soviet Union. It was a thing. Also, had an idea. Perhaps in this alternate history the reason for this super-world war is either that whatever international group sent us up didn't come to be to keep the peace or, since it's evidently taking a more active role than the real UN, some member nations leave and the remaining members declare war to keep them in or something? Probably not necessary to even figure this stuff out, since the chars will never know, but the more lore the better.

[Ace_General]

Well a lot of folks did abandon much of that stuff for a utopian dream historically, it was called the Soviet Union. It was a thing. Also, had an idea. Perhaps in this alternate history the reason for this super-world war is either that whatever international group sent us up didn't come to be to keep the peace or, since it's evidently taking a more active role than the real UN, some member nations leave and the remaining members declare war to keep them in or something? Probably not necessary to even figure this stuff out, since the chars will never know, but the more lore the better.

People abandoned technology and stuff for the soviet union? WUT? The soviet union, even at the end was one of the most heavily industrialized and most scientifically advanced nations in world history(though their economy was set up kind retarded and theri standard of living crapy) and the basis of communist ideology was to INDUSTRIALIZE and MODERNIZE and educate people so that true communism could happen. And that is why many people in Tsarist russia and during the revolution backed the Reds, is because they thought they could make Russia a strong modern country, like for example the people who backed Stalin withi his idea of "Socialism in one country" and the Menshiviks. And the break up of the soviet uinion was more about nationalist elites and Gorbachev not having the stomach or idea of how an economy really worked to fix things, then Yeltsin being a drunken idiot.

And I personally would like the Ideea of a 1980s Cold war gone hot scenario, and now its 20-50 years later

[Dirty Chai]

Yeah, it's not necessary, but that seems the most likely.

I disagree with Ace.
Given enough time, such 'throw-back' societies would drop all but the most simple and conventional technology and concepts.
In Nausicaa, this is reflected by humanity seeing the apocalypse and the old world in a mythological view, with gods and demons and heroes and villains. Paintings and tapestries telling how they got there and how not to behave in the future.
I'm not saying they would revert to cavemen.
I'm saying that, given enough destruction, these humans would adapt from it and avoid making the same actions again as survival would seem to mandate.

[Dirty Chai]

It's as Aggy described, mostly.
The alternate reality of it just helps us give it more.. believability?

It would be like our characters came from one branch of the quantum theory of time, a 'more hopeful' version where we are trying to colonize, and got sent to another 'backwards' branch, where it is as Aggy described.

- Ruined cities with overgrowth (the typical stuff); some inhabitants who have remained, but still don't have the same society as us
- Other humans might descend from groups that purposely lived in primitive and peaceful ways to rid themselves of the perceived 'evils' of civilization