[Patch 12-β] Siege AI tests and reviews

[baptistus]

I made a short video test of the siege AI of the patch 12 beta using siege equipments.
I made several sieges battles and I resume in the video what I saw.



It still need a lot of work ... I made some specific tests
what do the archers during a siege



does the ai know to use/reuse three rams



the other siege equipments



And you, What do you think about the siege AI in this new beta patch ?

[Butan]

Looks like the pathfinding is way better when scaling the walls with siege equipment.
Could you try to make some on the defensive side by having units run/march through stairs and moving from a wall position to another?

[zzman305]

Just finished testing two round with a battering ram and towers. They don't reuse the towers but they damn sure use the battering ram if it can reach the gate.

[DramaBelli]

Dear Baptistus I'm not surprised about sieges AI. The only difference is that now I'm fine with it, this does not mean I like it, simply I'm not expecting anything with the curiosity and the anxiety of months ago. I take what it's arrived and work on this.

[Aenima]

I actually got a tiny bit optimistic when watching that video. Right up until the whole "they don't reuse siege equipment and still rush gates."

That said, hopefully they'll patch that up too so that the AI recognises to use towers and ladders with several units and that rams should be used for the gates. Hopefully.

[DeadInTheWater]

Did 2 custom battles. 1 Stack each. 2BR 2L 2T first time, 1BR 3L 3T second time, for the attacker.

They used the equipment properly, except once where a tower got hung up on a corner of a wall tower, they just didn't reuse it. It would help if the attacker got more latters or a new cheaper kind maybe. They came in two waves, all of them, the second into a cluster at the gate. Real bad lag. Once they smashed the gate they would start coming through it then do that back and forth thing before eventually making it. Oh yeah, the first time the second BR went in the opposite direction at the start, then I forgot about it, so who knows.

Didn't try any boat landings.

So in conclusion, If CA: - Makes AI, reuse equipment, Calvary dismount and attack or hang back till a open gate is clear , have some more pathfinding, Split their army (they might with
bigger ones, haven't tried) especially when there's 2 BRs, Not bunch up at the gate.
- Reduces the frame rate stuttering. Still with the driver improvements lately.
- There's probably more minor things I missed or forgot
this game will be at a expectable level.

Maybe there is still hope! With mods (DeI). Its still a beta.

[est Dudus]

Did 2 custom battles. 1 Stack each. 2BR 2L 2T first time, 1BR 3L 3T second time, for the attacker.

They used the equipment properly, except once where a tower got hung up on a corner of a wall tower, they just didn't reuse it. It would help if the attacker got more latters or a new cheaper kind maybe. They came in two waves, all of them, the second into a cluster at the gate. Real bad lag. Once they smashed the gate they would start coming through it then do that back and forth thing before eventually making it. Oh yeah, the first time the second BR went in the opposite direction at the start, then I forgot about it, so who knows.

Didn't try any boat landings.

So in conclusion, If CA: - Makes AI, reuse equipment, Calvary dismount and attack or hang back till a open gate is clear , have some more pathfinding, Split their army (they might with
bigger ones, haven't tried) especially when there's 2 BRs, Not bunch up at the gate.
- Reduces the frame rate stuttering. Still with the driver improvements lately.
- There's probably more minor things I missed or forgot
this game will be at a expectable level.

Maybe there is still hope! With mods (DeI). Its still a beta.

I tested out the sieges.....terrible....remember on the actual campaign they will only have the latter's, because its a instant attack. If they come from the sea, well, even better-------- they won't have anything, "Burn that metal gate baby". Oh, naval landing are still bugged, even maybe worse. I had enemy units sailing in circles ramming each other, while the one that did land------blob into a huge mess at the gates.

What a great game.

[LexLuthor]

Looks promising, I can honestly say CA is making progress and I really believe they will make naval sieges more stable and remove wall torching. After this happens, the game is at around 90% IMO.

- Lex

[baptistus]

It still need a lot of work ... I made some specific tests
what do the archers during a siege



does the ai know to use/reuse three rams



the other siege equipments

[Ishan]

Post deleted. This is not a CA or Rome 2 bashing thread. Post only if you have tried the patch 12 and share your feedback about Siege AI and interact with other players over this issue. Anything else stays out of this thread.

[Coleus]

It's getting there, AI tower use is much more fluent and it actually smashed gates down when I gave it rams.

Good work CA, keep it up, you're getting there.

[Pheidippides]

Not so much a SAI as a CAI question, but has anyone seen the AI maintain a siege longer than 1 turn?

[riskymonk]

Does anybody stop and wonder if we should just focus on mpc for now? I honestly don't believe it's possible to program the AI to react to every little situation whilst trying to outsmart you no matter how far in the future technology goes. MMOs are big and CA have taken its concept with the in-game purchases. Hopefully they will gear towards multiplayer where we can have teams of 2 competing on the map along with CAI factions. I understand it may take a while each turn but surely they'll allow you to handle economy and diplomacy and other micro management bits and bobs during the opponents turn.

[baptistus]

Does anybody stop and wonder if we should just focus on mpc for now? I honestly don't believe it's possible to program the AI to react to every little situation whilst trying to outsmart you no matter how far in the future technology goes.

I showed a lot of bugs, not only a bad AI. You can have tons of bugs in a MPC too. I want a polished game before to think about an incredible real AI.

[TheCenturion24]

Does anybody stop and wonder if we should just focus on mpc for now? I honestly don't believe it's possible to program the AI to react to every little situation whilst trying to outsmart you no matter how far in the future technology goes. MMOs are big and CA have taken its concept with the in-game purchases. Hopefully they will gear towards multiplayer where we can have teams of 2 competing on the map along with CAI factions. I understand it may take a while each turn but surely they'll allow you to handle economy and diplomacy and other micro management bits and bobs during the opponents turn.

No, no, and no. NO. TW has always been about the SP experience. MP focus would simply not be Total War, or at least one I'm willing to stick around for.

[Dago Red]

No, no, and no. NO. TW has always been about the SP experience. MP focus would simply not be Total War, or at least one I'm willing to stick around for.

He's got a point though. At least playing against another person would remove a lot of the boredom factor, as well as the gameplay ineptness. If playing against a person instead of cooperatively that also solves a lot of the siege issues. However I prefer playing cooperatively, forming an alliance against a large amount of enemy factions so that wouldn't help me that much (this was how I played shogun II Fots with darthmod, as playing the game was a little too boring otherwise).

I don't believe the game will ever be worth it at this point, as in worth a human being's time. And reports about modding possibilities and what cannot be changed are dire in the extreme. The only thing I can imagine at this point, is after super heavy modding (let's say RTR II, platinum edition, version 3.0), that it could be enjoyable with human opponents, even if some of the vapid hardcoded mechanics cannot be changed.

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

How they coded the AI to only walk/attack in groups that is bugged and thats why they act so damn stupid, they are connected as a group cant work alone, bad scripting CA. How you scripted this AI is really dumb....

[JaM]

Makes me wonder if we need to make a petition to CA to remove those torches or what... its like THE MOST HATED "Feature" in Rome 2... completely ignored from the start...

[Dago Red]

Makes me wonder if we need to make a petition to CA to remove those torches or what... its like THE MOST HATED "Feature" in Rome 2... completely ignored from the start...

In their defense, I can't see any easy way to make the game work without them given they way they built it. As Ant points out above, how would an attacking army from the sea get into a walled city? There are only a couple landing spots within the walls and you can't just add more. They couldn't offload siege towers or ladders from their ships they way its designed right now....

So you would have to redo a great deal of the game (which is actually what is required at this point).

[JaM]

In their defense, I can't see any easy way to make the game work without them given they way they built it. As Ant points out above, how would an attacking army from the sea get into a walled city? There are only a couple landing spots within the walls and you can't just add more. They couldn't offload siege towers or ladders from their ships they way its designed right now....

So you would have to redo a great deal of the game (which is actually what is required at this point).

i think they could easily cure this by giving every unit ability to "bash" the gate, even create the animation where they would just use some tree stump as an improvised ram.. that was actually what was used to break the gate, not torches.. and no need to make it as an equipment.. just make so unit walks to the gate, improvised ram/stump appears, and they ram the gate with it...