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Thread: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

  1. #41
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Which of course is why Company of Heroes 2 is so repugnant. They let the Germans be Lawful Neutral but make the Soviets Chaotic Evil. They're the good guys in the game but they're committing war crimes against their own side for no reason at all. Completely ed.
    Like what? My recent reading of Antony Beevor's works suggest Soviet did commit all the stuffs portray in CoH2.
    Last edited by hellheaven1987; April 13, 2014 at 05:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  2. #42
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Some, not all, and its distasteful to completely ignore the Holocaust and Wehrmacht war crimes and focus on the much smaller and less severe Soviet ones in a context of comparing the two against each other.

    If I'm a serial killer and you're a date rapist I'm not saying you should get off the hook, but what I did shouldn't be ignored nor should what you did be exaggerated to the point of absurdity.

    If I'm doing a game about the Pacific theater I'm not going to include US war crimes into the equation unless I clearly show what was going on in China. Perspective is everything.

    Ultimately that sort of thing has no place in a game which is set in the real world while witnesses to those events still draw breath. It's not Grand Theft Auto where the point is to play in the role of a fictional person doing bad things to fictional people in a fictional setting.
    Last edited by Col. Tartleton; April 13, 2014 at 08:40 PM.
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  3. #43
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Some, not all
    Such as?
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  4. #44
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    When did the red army burn their own civilians alive in their homes?

    That's not how scorched earth works. Defeats the purpose.
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  5. #45
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    When did the red army burn their own civilians alive in their homes?

    That's not how scorched earth works. Defeats the purpose.
    Unfortunately it did happen; Antony Beevor, in his latest work "The Second World War", mentions that special order was given to destroy every building that German could be used when German launched its final push towards Moscow at October. The rapid German advance caused a general panic among Red Army, hence many buildings were destroyed without checking any civilian inside, resulted several buildings were destroyed when civilians were inside and killed the civilians.
    Last edited by hellheaven1987; April 13, 2014 at 09:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  6. #46
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Strider View Post
    Oh, and this is false. As a white person, I can say that it's not possible to be racist to a white person.
    Are you ing serious right now?
    Rep me and I'll rep you back. (IF YOU LEAVE YOUR NAME!)
    Quote Originally Posted by MrZanyGaming View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Strider View Post
    Oh, and this is false. As a white person, I can say that it's not possible to be racist to a white person.
    Congratulations, you just lowered my IQ by 10 points.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Strider View Post



    Oh, and this is false. As a white person, I can say that it's not possible to be racist to a white person.
    Congratulations, you just lowered my IQ by 10 points.

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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    When did the red army burn their own civilians alive in their homes?

    That's not how scorched earth works. Defeats the purpose.
    There were certainly terrible atrocities committed by the Red Army as it swept across Europe. Stalin didn't have extermination camps like the SS, but he did have the Gulags where people were still worked to death, even if they were not gassed or shot. The purge of the Red Army saw about 80,000 line officers executed, and to save bullets they had some officers line up, put their heads on a chopping block where their skulls were smashed in with sledge hammers.

    The systematic and clinical way that the Third Reich went about exterminating the people they considered undesirable is a horror not before seen in the world, and not since. No one had ever before put together industrial line murder, and this horrified the world and still does. The atrocities committed by the allies were largely papered over, because they won. If the Axis had won, we'd be all talking about that evil Truman and how he was prepared to use nuclear weapons on civilians.
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    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrZanyGaming View Post
    Congratulations, you just lowered my IQ by 10 points.
    I think that will be my new sig.
    Rep me and I'll rep you back. (IF YOU LEAVE YOUR NAME!)
    Quote Originally Posted by MrZanyGaming View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Strider View Post
    Oh, and this is false. As a white person, I can say that it's not possible to be racist to a white person.
    Congratulations, you just lowered my IQ by 10 points.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    There were certainly terrible atrocities committed by the Red Army as it swept across Europe. Stalin didn't have extermination camps like the SS, but he did have the Gulags where people were still worked to death, even if they were not gassed or shot. The purge of the Red Army saw about 80,000 line officers executed, and to save bullets they had some officers line up, put their heads on a chopping block where their skulls were smashed in with sledge hammers.

    The systematic and clinical way that the Third Reich went about exterminating the people they considered undesirable is a horror not before seen in the world, and not since. No one had ever before put together industrial line murder, and this horrified the world and still does. The atrocities committed by the allies were largely papered over, because they won. If the Axis had won, we'd be all talking about that evil Truman and how he was prepared to use nuclear weapons on civilians.
    While we talk about the SS, we shouldn't overlook the plethora of war crimes committed by the Wehrmacht either.

  11. #51
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Unfortunately it did happen; Antony Beevor, in his latest work "The Second World War", mentions that special order was given to destroy every building that German could be used when German launched its final push towards Moscow at October. The rapid German advance caused a general panic among Red Army, hence many buildings were destroyed without checking any civilian inside, resulted several buildings were destroyed when civilians were inside and killed the civilians.
    Several buildings of what? Tens of thousands?

    It's the context. Accidents like that happen when millions of invaders are coming to annihilate you. You don't need to put that in a video game.

    I mean I don't think it would be reasonable to show Germans crucifying Allied soldiers in a WW1 game. That didn't happen.
    Last edited by Col. Tartleton; April 14, 2014 at 06:44 AM.
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  12. #52

    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    of the germans won,we would be having the same talk about the Allies who bombarded Dresden to the ground,or the communist atrocities,or the Holomodor done by mostly jewish communists.

    Instead we just talk about the SS,the Holocaust and how lucky we are the Russians and Americans came and saved us from the "horrors" of the 3 rd Reich.

    They didn t save me,I m white,why should I have been afraid of them ?

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    lol, troll......

    But seriously, what the Nazis did was bad, what the Vikings did was bad, what the Mongols did was bad, hell, what Alexander the Great did was bad, I think the underlying difference is that sadly there are still nazis/skinheads around today, as opposed to anything like the Mongol Empire which is long gone......Nazism as an ethos needs to die, it is heavily rooted in pure hate and doesnt do anything good for the world.


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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreius Pretorianus View Post
    of the germans won,we would be having the same talk about the Allies who bombarded Dresden to the ground,or the communist atrocities,or the Holomodor done by mostly jewish communists.

    Instead we just talk about the SS,the Holocaust and how lucky we are the Russians and Americans came and saved us from the "horrors" of the 3 rd Reich.

    They didn t save me,I m white,why should I have been afraid of them ?
    You may be white, but you're not Germanic. You're Romanian, so probably a Slav, so probably a Nazi slave.

  15. #55
    Henry of Grosmont's Avatar Clockwork Angel
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    The Vikings were extremely brutal and rightly feared because of it. Also, Patrick Cockburn looks like an Eagle.
    You mean Sam the Eagle?


    Sorry, this is so ridiculous that I had to. Besides, he does look like him.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    You may be white, but you're not Germanic. You're Romanian, so probably a Slav, so probably a Nazi slave.
    lol Romanian = slav ?What kind of hungarian history did your learn that from

    Anyway better than an ZOG slave,in wich minority extra rights and gay marriages are the top priority.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry of Grosmont View Post
    You mean Sam the Eagle?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Sorry, this is so ridiculous that I had to. Besides, he does look like him.
    And fittingly both are Muppets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreius Pretorianus View Post
    They didn t save me,I m white,why should I have been afraid of them ?
    There's been some new scholarly research to suggest the Nazis may have killed one or two white people. As Romania threw in her lot with the Nazis and participated in atrocities, you may well have been safe.
    'When people stop believing in God, they donít believe in nothing ó they believe in anything. '

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  18. #58
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreius Pretorianus View Post
    lol Romanian = slav ?What kind of hungarian history did your learn that from

    Anyway better than an ZOG slave,in wich minority extra rights and gay marriages are the top priority.
    No you're right, the Slavs passed through into the Balkans without violating the future borders of Romania.

    In any case, as Markas pointed out, Romanians allied themselves with the Nazis and participated in the atrocities to a large extent with them, so perhaps Romanians would have been left alone to kill Jews by themselves.

  19. #59
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    It's the context. Accidents like that happen when millions of invaders are coming to annihilate you. You don't need to put that in a video game.
    As long as it did happen developer has the freedom to put it in game or not; at least Relic portray the event correctly as "accident" - there were worse cases such as NKVD executing possible future German "collaborators" before Red Army retreated from that region (irony enough NKVD activity only became a bit more sane when Stalin personally told Beria "stop this nonsense").
    Last edited by hellheaven1987; April 14, 2014 at 07:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  20. #60

    Default Re: Vkings were like the SS, and Scandinavians should apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Strider View Post
    On the same token, neither the Vikings nor those whom they invaded were, are, or ever will be, on the same level as atrocious, despicable, murderous, and scorn-worthy as Nazis.
    Which is fine unless of course it was your family farm they raided, your wife and daughter they raped and sold into slavery and your son they killed.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

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