Spanish parliament rejects Catalan independence vote

[hellheaven1987]

Spanish MPs have voted overwhelmingly to reject a request by the Catalan authorities to hold a referendum on independence on 9 November.

After seven hours of debate, 299 MPs voted against the motion, with 47 votes in favour and one abstention.

Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy earlier warned a referendum would be "an economic disaster" for both Spain and Catalonia.

Plans to let the people of the eastern region break away from Spain has led to months of constitutional debate.

The region already enjoys a wide degree of autonomy but the recent economic crisis in Spain has fuelled Catalan nationalism.

Source

But the fun part is:

Prime Minister Rajoy repeated his argument that a referendum would be considered illegal because, under Spanish law, referendums on sovereignty must be held nationally and not regionally.

"Together we all win, but separate, we all lose. This isn't just a question of law, but of sentiment... I can't imagine Spain without Catalonia, or Catalonia out of Europe." he told parliamentarians in a debate prior to the vote.

Great, so after the "Free Scotland would not be in EU", now every EU member is using EU as a threat to prevent independent movement within their own country? How convenient it is.

[Stavroforos]

Good for Spain. The last thing it needs is to lose such a large and profitable part of its territory.

[Lazzeer]

Great, so after the "Free Scotland would not be in EU", now every EU member is using EU as a threat to prevent independent movement within their own country? How convenient it is.

It certainly is. What's even more convenient is that Mas can't go to the ECJ and ask for a ruling on whether Catalonia could maintain EU membership automatically until Catalonia has actually declared independence (as until then the whole matter is theoretical, and therefore not judiciable). Even then the ECJ might always say membership is not automatic, which would have massively damaging consequences for the Catalonian economy.

[Jom]

There's no need to gloat.

Source

But the fun part is:

Great, so after the "Free Scotland would not be in EU", now every EU member is using EU as a threat to prevent independent movement within their own country? How convenient it is.

Why is that funny or suspect in terms of its convenience? It stands to reason that no constituent part of a country can apply for EU membership whilst it's not sovereign and able to pursue its own foreign policy. No country should take EU membership as a given. And EU members aren't using the EU as a threat, and no one has said that an independent Scotland would not be in the EU categorically. The point is, that Scotland and maybe (I haven't looked into it) Catalonia have claimed that they would automatically accede to the EU anyway, when there's no such thing as automatic accession.

[pajomife]

EU wont to last for ever,and at least they have their independence.

[sleepyx732]

a referendum would be considered illegal because, under Spanish law, referendums on sovereignty must be held nationally and not regionally.

Who cares.

a referendum would be "an economic disaster" for both Spain and Catalonia.

If this is true then this referendum, and this thread, are a useless venture. Is that what we are here to find out? If it'll be "an economic disaster"? Why does the rule of law always seem to take precedence over.. everything? Since when do poor people, or people who are about to become 'that much' poorer, care about rule of law? It'd be great to hear if this was just a 'false' political ploy or power play and they in fact, don't really care. Because go democracy and civilization?

[hellheaven1987]

It is more like a tax disaster for Spain alone if Catalonia was in EU without Spain cock block it.

[YukonTrooper]

Catalonia, Scotland and Veneto need to establish a joint kingdom, the EUFU.

[Knight of Heaven]

Prime Minister Rajoy repeated his argument that a referendum would be considered illegal because, under Spanish law, referendums on sovereignty must be held nationally and not regionally.

This is just political sound bite, because, wel all know a referendum about the independence of catalonia ( or whataver country or region it might be anywhere) it is never a judicial issue, but a political statement, or venture, that the laws and procedings needs to acomodate to it, not the other way arround.

That is, If the realization of a referendum is truly a honest goal, that people realy want to see it happen.
I dont think it is the case.

Im certain the catalonians would welcome a referendum, but the Spanish stablishment dont, and they will do what they can for a referendum not to happen, or to invalidate one, if it happens. And thats about it.

Also news flash there was never a referendum that i know of, for any country to chose to join the EU or the Euro, it just happened. I dont expect within the majority of EU contries to change their ways, as this matter is concerned. And i dare say EU has cleary some democratic deficit.
jurgen habermas says as much of late for instance.