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  1. #1
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    Default Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    This is pretty devastating in light of the claims made by some in the USG that the spying and mass collection was done 'to prevent terrorism':
    Edward Snowden: US government spied on human rights workers

    Whistleblower tells Council of Europe NSA deliberately snooped on groups such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty Internationa

    The US has spied on the staff of prominent human rights organisations,Edward Snowden has told the Council of Europe in Strasbourg, Europe's top human rights body.
    Giving evidence via a videolink from Moscow, Snowden said the National Security Agency – for which he worked as a contractor – had deliberately snooped on bodies like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.
    He told council members: "The NSA has specifically targeted either leaders or staff members in a number of civil and non-governmental organisations … including domestically within the borders of the United States." Snowden did not reveal which groups the NSA had bugged.
    The assembly asked Snowden if the US spied on the "highly sensitive and confidential communications" of major rights bodies such as Amnesty and Human Rights Watch, as well as on similar smaller regional and national groups. He replied: "The answer is, without question, yes. Absolutely."
    Snowden, meanwhile, dismissed NSA claims that he had swiped as many as 1.7m documents from the agency's servers in an interview with Vanity Fair. He described the number released by investigators as "simply a scare number based on an intentionally crude metric: everything that I ever digitally interacted with in my career."
    He added: "Look at the language officials use in sworn testimony about these records: 'could have,' 'may have,' 'potentially.' They're prevaricating. Every single one of those officials knows I don't have 1.7m files, but what are they going to say? What senior official is going to go in front of Congress and say, 'We have no idea what he has, because the NSA's auditing of systems holding hundreds of millions of Americans' data is so negligent that any high-school dropout can walk out the door with it'?"
    In live testimony to the Council of Europe, Snowden also gave a forensic account of how the NSA's powerful surveillance programs violate the EU's privacy laws. He said programs such as XKeyscore, revealed by the Guardian last July, use sophisticated data mining techniques to screen "trillions" of private communications.
    "This technology represents the most significant new threat to civil liberties in modern times," he declared.
    XKeyscore allows analysts to search with no prior authorisation through vast databases containing emails, online chats, and the browsing histories of millions of individuals.
    Snowden said on Tuesday that he and other analysts were able to use the tool to select an individual's metadata and content "without judicial approval or prior review".
    In practical terms, this meant the agency tracked citizens not involved in any nefarious activities, he stressed. The NSA operated a "de facto policy of guilt by association", he added.
    Snowden said the agency, for example, monitored the travel patterns of innocent EU and other citizens not involved in terrorism or any wrongdoing.
    The 30-year-old whistleblower – who began his intelligence career working for the CIA in Geneva – said the NSA also routinely monitored the communications of Swiss nationals "across specific routes".
    Others who fell under its purview included people who accidentally followed a wrong link, downloaded the wrong file, or "simply visited an internet sex forum". French citizens who logged on to a suspected network were also targeted, he said.
    The XKeyscore program amounted to an egregious form of mass surveillance, Snowden suggested, because it hoovered up data from "entire populations". Anyone using non-encrypted communications might be targeted on the basis of their "religious beliefs, sexual or political affiliations, transactions with certain businesses" and even "gun ownership", he claimed.
    Snowden said he did not believe the NSA was engaged in "nightmare scenarios", such as the active compilation of a list of homosexuals "to round them up and send them into camps". But he said that the infrastructure allowing this to happen had been built. The NSA, its allies, authoritarian governments and even private organisations could all abuse this technology, he said, adding that mass surveillance was a "global problem". It led to "less liberal and safe societies", he told the council.
    At times assembly members struggled to follow Snowden's rapid, sometimes technical delivery. At one point the session's chairperson begged him to slow down, so the translators could catch up.
    Snowden also criticised the British spy agency GCHQ. He cited the agency's Optic Nerve program revealed by the Guardian in February. It was, he said, one of many "abusive" examples of state snooping. Under the program GCHQ bulk collects images from Yahoo webcam chats. Many of these images were "intensely private" Snowden said, depicting some form of nudity, and often taken from the "bedrooms and private homes" of people not suspected of individualised wrongdoing. "[Optic Nerve] continued even after GCHQ became aware that the vast majority had no intelligence value at all," Snowden said.
    Snowden made clear he did believe in legitimate intelligence operations. "I would like to clarify I have no intention to harm the US government or strain [its] bilateral ties," he asserted, adding that he wanted to improve government, not bring it down.
    The exiled American spy, however, said the NSA should abandon its electronic surveillance of entire civilian populations. Instead, he said, it should go back to the traditional model of eavesdropping against specific targets, such as "North Korea, terrorists, cyber-actors, or anyone else."
    Snowden also urged members of the Council of Europe to encrypt their personal communications. He said that encryption, used properly, could still withstand "brute force attacks" from powerful spy agencies and others. "Properly implemented algorithms backed up by truly random keys of significant length … all require more energy to decrypt than exists in the universe," he said.
    The international organisation defended its decision to invite Snowden to testify. In a statement on Monday, it said: "Edward Snowden has triggered a massive public debate on privacy in the internet age. We hope to ask him what his revelations mean for ordinary users and how they should protect their privacy and what kind of restrictions Europe should impose on state surveillance."
    The council invited the White House to give evidence but it declined.
    In the Vanity Fair interview the whistleblower said he paid the bill in the Mira Hotel using his own credit card because he wanted to demonstrate he was not working for a foreign intelligence agency. "My hope was that avoiding ambiguity would prevent spy accusations and create more room for reasonable debate," he told the magazine. "Unfortunately, a few of the less responsible members of Congress embraced the spy charges for political reasons, as they still do to this day."
    The NSA says Snowden should have brought his complaints to its own internal oversight and compliance bodies. Snowden, however, insisted he did raise concerns formally, including through emails sent to the NSA's lawyers. "I directly challenge the NSA to deny that I contacted NSA oversight and compliance bodies directly via email," he stated.
    Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...rights-workers



    This is only going to widen the growing rift between the US and the EU, especially with so much division in the EU vis-a-vis Ukraine and the Snowden Revelations of NSA spying on the EU, as well as the EU decision to devise their own internet network.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    In the Vanity Fair interview the whistleblower said he paid the bill in the Mira Hotel using his own credit card because he wanted to demonstrate he was not working for a foreign intelligence agency. "


    While I don't think hes actually working for anyone, though I wouldn't be surprised if he was being bankrolled at this point (and there is a difference), that is one of the more stupid things I've read in a long time.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    you need a credit card to book any hotel room

  4. #4

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Using a credit card doesn't prove you are not working for a foreign intelligence agency.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    so where's the evidence he's working for foreign intelligence?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    so where's the evidence he's working for foreign intelligence?
    Its an incredibly stupid statement is the point.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

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    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Its an incredibly stupid statement is the point.
    by the journalist, not from Snowden's mouth.

    Anyway, this is beside the point; fact is, why on earth would the US want to spy on human rights groups like HRW and Amnesty International?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    by the journalist, not from Snowden's mouth.

    Anyway, this is beside the point; fact is, why on earth would the US want to spy on human rights groups like HRW and Amnesty International?
    In the Vanity Fair interview the whistleblower said he paid the bill in the Mira Hotel using his own credit card because he wanted to demonstrate he was not working for a foreign intelligence agency. "My hope was that avoiding ambiguity would prevent spy accusations and create more room for reasonable debate," he told the magazine.
    Either they completely got it wrong and quoted out of context or it was a stupid statement.

    But to your second point, please think a bit about what those organizations do and how they could be misused, influenced, or fed false information. On the flip side, the organizations themselves obvious have contacts and people willing to give them information in places where such can be hard to come by. That would be valuable as well.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post

    Anyway, this is beside the point; fact is, why on earth would the US want to spy on human rights groups like HRW and Amnesty International?

    So they can decalre people who provide evidence of atrocities 'terrorists' and blow them and their family up.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers



    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    So they can decalre people who provide evidence of atrocities 'terrorists' and blow them and their family up.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    So they can decalre people who provide evidence of atrocities 'terrorists' and blow them and their family up.
    Well this is a perfectly reasonable, enlightening post.
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

  12. #12

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Anyway, this is beside the point; fact is, why on earth would the US want to spy on human rights groups like HRW and Amnesty International?
    So that they don't expose atrocities done by the "good guys", by accident or not. US is probably not happy that its jihadist friends in Syria are getting pretty bad PR from those organizations.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    This thread is just un-American and I DON'T LIKE IT.



    Snowden made clear he did believe in legitimate intelligence operations. "I would like to clarify I have no intention to harm the US government or strain [its] bilateral ties," he asserted, adding that he wanted to improve government, not bring it down.
    The exiled American spy, however, said the NSA should abandon its electronic surveillance of entire civilian populations. Instead, he said, it should go back to the traditional model of eavesdropping against specific targets, such as "North Korea, terrorists, cyber-actors, or anyone else."
    Well that sounds reasonable enough; the NSA doesn't do reasonable, though. Creepy 1984-esque surveillance of average Americans is more their style. I'm suddenly reminded of that Snowden quote where he said: "I'm still working for the NSA; they're the only ones who don't know it."

    To be fair, though, I'm sure they and the other intelligence agencies are working hard to counter your garden variety Islamic terrorist plots and clandestine but still very hostile actors like China in this new global cyberwar.

  14. #14
    trance's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Yes.

    Well anyway, it's obvious to everyone and their mother that Snowden is not any longer a very viable source of information. Putin made the catch of 2013 when he reeled him in. I don't trust a word coming out of that man since he defected to Russia, sadly.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by trance View Post

    it's obvious
    not according to the interwebz.

    exhibit a


    #tweet #my #twitter

  16. #16

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by trance View Post
    Yes.

    Well anyway, it's obvious to everyone and their mother that Snowden is not any longer a very viable source of information. Putin made the catch of 2013 when he reeled him in. I don't trust a word coming out of that man since he defected to Russia, sadly.
    "Yeah guys, freedom of press and individual liberties and stuff!" He says comfortably from Putin's Russia...

  17. #17

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthShizNit View Post
    "Yeah guys, freedom of press and individual liberties and stuff!" He says comfortably from Putin's Russia...
    Russia trumps years of solitary any day. It must have been the longing for those romantic Russian winters that dragged him away from his sweet job in Hawaii...

    Quote Originally Posted by trance View Post
    Yes.

    Well anyway, it's obvious to everyone and their mother that Snowden is not any longer a very viable source of information. Putin made the catch of 2013 when he reeled him in. I don't trust a word coming out of that man since he defected to Russia, sadly.
    Rubbish, and you know it.
    Last edited by Plan C; April 11, 2014 at 03:47 AM.

  18. #18
    Lord of Nihilism's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    I don't see this escalating much since both the US and the EU spies on its citizens, whether they want to admit it or not. I don't much care for these surveillance activities that the US, Germany, the UK, Russia and etc etc do mainly because when I use my PC, I use it under the assumption that i'm always being watched by the CSIS, Mi6 or whatever agencies are in charge of monitoring people.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers



    Snowden is no Hero, he is an enemy Asset and a Spy. He went to the enemies of the West Red China and Russia to hand them classified stuff on his laptop. This is treason.

    And now lets go into detail. How incompetent is an intelligence service who hires people who have questionable connections? And lets him steal stuff? And then let them fly to the China'sphere for an operation?

    Man this whole story is so foul, so fake it hurts. Now everyone knows what the NSA is and is against it, but nearly no-one knows what the Russian "Counterpart" SORM is or how Russia and China spies on his Citizens...? Can we call them so or would it more fit to call them Hostages?


    And to the actual topic. What do you expect? How many Human Rights Organisations are just Fronts for other state Actors or terrorist organisations? The Council of Muslim Organizations in the USA is just a Front for the Muslim Brotherhood for example. How naive would it be not to have an eye on "Human Rights Workers".

    Jezz.... Grow up people.

    By the way how is Assange doing? Does he still sit in that embassy playing the Hero? Hidding there because he knows hes guilty of rape?


    And just for the "record";: No one cares about your personal data. Most of you people are boring as bread. Realy, you ain't important.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Snowden Testifies to EU: US Spied on Human Rights Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Raubritter View Post
    Snowden is no Hero, he is an enemy Asset and a Spy. He went to the enemies of the West Red China and Russia to hand them classified stuff on his laptop. This is treason.

    And now lets go into detail. How incompetent is an intelligence service who hires people who have questionable connections? And lets him steal stuff? And then let them fly to the China'sphere for an operation?

    Man this whole story is so foul, so fake it hurts. Now everyone knows what the NSA is and is against it, but nearly no-one knows what the Russian "Counterpart" SORM is or how Russia and China spies on his Citizens...? Can we call them so or would it more fit to call them Hostages?


    And to the actual topic. What do you expect? How many Human Rights Organisations are just Fronts for other state Actors or terrorist organisations? The Council of Muslim Organizations in the USA is just a Front for the Muslim Brotherhood for example. How naive would it be not to have an eye on "Human Rights Workers".

    Jezz.... Grow up people.

    By the way how is Assange doing? Does he still sit in that embassy playing the Hero? Hidding there because he knows hes guilty of rape?


    And just for the "record";: No one cares about your personal data. Most of you people are boring as bread. Realy, you ain't important.
    From your post it is very clear that you have a very incomplete view of what actually occurred. I find it fascinating, considering how the chain of events and outcomes are clearly available online, and don't take particular effort to find.

    That you choose to pin the blame on Snowden and ignore implications of 5 eyes endeavours on you and wider public is disingenuous. You can blame Snowden until you're blue in the face but it won't change the fact that citizens have lost control of what states know about intimate aspects of their lives. You can thump your chest all you want, but it won't change the fact that NSA activities actively undermine security of internet communications and facilitate online crime.

    As for the last line of your post - you are clearly terminally ignorant on those matters, and by choice. Data is incredibly valuable commercially (collection of it is an entire business model of some of the biggest companies around like Google, Facebook, Amazon etc). On top of that, you make a fatal assumption that building a tracking system for all citizens makes anyone's life better, or safer. On the contrary, constructing a system that has a capacity to underpin an authoritarian state is against your own interest as a citizen; we know this because that's exactly the measure of control previous totalitarian states employed to suppress dissent.

    What we are seeing is a system that, in the wrong hands, can pick winners, pick losers, control entire social narrative and communications, facilitate your arrest and serve information on what you have said for the entirety of your online history. It's a system that has the potential for misuse and data leakage. Can't see how anyone with a shred of social responsibility can consent to that, to be honest.

    EDIT: Oh, and the meme that you posted is just moronic. What terrorist organisations? How will it help them? What operational capacity has been lost exactly through this disclosure? Has this enabled any "terrorists" to commence some sort of a plot? I mean, the fact that NSA discloses data outside of judicial process to DEA and FBI to facilitate arrests and convictions - does that help terrorists?
    Last edited by Plan C; April 11, 2014 at 10:15 AM.

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