I want MOAR of this judge, and I want to see his face when he yells like that.
Stupid Third Reich cameramen, they don't know how to do their job at all! They should have taken cues from good ole Leni Riefenstahl, who filmed Triumph of the Will in 1935. Imagine if she was behind the cameras for this event! It would have been like...10 times cooler/funnier.
All joking aside, the guy standing trial had some big brass balls on him for speaking up at all, as timid as he sounded, so for that he should be commended. Some of us would probably pee our pants at the sight of a panel of Nazi judges. Let alone one who can grill you like that.
No, I'm talking about fake trials not genocide. Every country has done bs trials at some point. Many of us are still doing it.
"Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō
Stav, what in the unholy are you talking about? BS trials and death camps are no cause for celebration no matter who does it.
People have always done it and they are still doing it and that should not make anyone happy.
"Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō
As long as Soviet did it I don't see why Nazi could not; afterall they were same level (right Stav?).
Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga
Stav, what in the unholy are you talking about? BS trials and death camps are no cause for celebration no matter who does it.
People have always done it and they are still doing it and that should not make anyone happy.
Ah good, the Nazi apologist platoon is almost fully accounted for!
But let me summarize why what you two do is ridiculous:
Thread about Nazi Germany: Oda and hellheaven :"SOVIETS DID IT TOO"
I have never done this either but my country (Colombia) has. But Mishkin, Franco did it. Your country did it man.
We're talking about fake trials, if you recall I also brought up Jo McCarthy not just the USSR. Besides we are not discussing the morality of x or y Nazi court. We are merely discussing fake Nazi trials and this fake trial involving an assassination attempt on Hitler in particular. Drawing connections between this trial and numerous others is easy simply because they happened.
Or do you perchance believe that Nazi Germany was the only dictatorship where control of the institutions occurred? As I recall even democracies have done it.
"Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō
I have never done this either but my country (Colombia) has. But Mishkin, Franco did it. Your country did it man.
We're talking about fake trials, if you recall I also brought up Jo McCarthy not just the USSR. Besides we are not discussing the morality of x or y Nazi court. We are merely discussing fake Nazi trials and this fake trial involving an assassination attempt on Hitler in particular. Drawing connections between this trial and numerous others is easy simply because they happened.
Or do you perchance believe that Nazi Germany was the only dictatorship where control of the institutions occurred? As I recall even democracies have done it.
So if someone started a thread featuring a video of the Khmer Rouge sentencing villagers to death with no real process of justice involved, you'd suddenly start talking about how Pinochet's Chile was worse in that domain, and then start saying that every country in the world has had regimes which did similar things? And you wouldn't expect to be met with a few raised eyebrows?
Under the patronage of the formidable and lovely Narf.
Proud patron of Derpy Hooves, Audacia, Lordsith, Frodo45127 and Sir Adrian.
start saying that every country in the world has had regimes which did similar things? And you wouldn't expect to be met with a few raised eyebrows?
Well, give an example which country did not then; by the way did US give Osama bin Laden a fair trial before sent in fire squad SEAL to execute him? I don't remember that.
Last edited by hellheaven1987; April 25, 2014 at 05:03 PM.
Originally Posted by Markas
Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
Originally Posted by Diocle
Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..
"Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō
Soviet trials would be way cooler; shoot him first then put his corpse on trial.
While barely different, forgive me for overstepping my bounds. After all, you have such a multifaceted track-record on the subject that it wouldn't be very forgivable to make assumptions.
As far as Hitler's actual misdeeds go, he killed Jews and Gypsies (among others) but I can't say I know of any other truly horrible and bloody deeds other than your occasional execution, I know Germany was a police state but the fact that so many different people were German sympathizers might be some indication, where as Soviet allies would try to jump ship on more than one occasion.
There are lots of good qualities that Hitler possessed. Good leadership skills, hard work and the power of oratory are all traits that everyone could have, does anyone deny this?
People who admire Hitler are no different from people who admire Stalin, Mao or even someone like Winston Churchill, FDR or Alexander or Constantine. Difference is that it is socially unaccepted to admire Hitler, wait 50 years though.
But to answer your question, do I admire Hitler? I would have to say yes and no. Yes because of all that he managed to accomplish and the fact that a hobo managed to make himself leader of Germany. His entire life was an underdog struggle and that in itself is worth admiration. No because I do not agree with the purity of race (which is pretty much impossible) and his idea of staying away from trade and the free market, the type idea is that? But to say that Hitler had no incredible amounts of support in his country and that he only stayed in power because he was a dictator is false. He likely would have stayed in power even if Germany was a democracy.
His ability to work hard is also an admirable quality which quite frankly would look good on all of our resumes (unless you already have that quality).
Stalin on the other hand is a very difficult character to sympathize with. He wasn't particularly poor as hell growing up and he did little actual good in his country. Of course school was free and Russians found a boom throughout his reign, but the other peoples were stomped on pretty good. I guess that and the way he managed to climb the pyramid to go on the top are the only truly admirable things about him.
I don't think that the killing of Jews in Germany was really based on hate. In my opinion it was more based on accomplishing a political goal. So if said person takes over a country and a certain political goal requires the extermination of a race, then yes I could see that happening. It happens in Burma and Cambodia, for the same reason. The government blames minorities all the time for stuff.
I didn't say the Holocaust was a good thing. I am just saying that Hitler is an easy character to feel sympathy for, his parents died and he became a hobo. That's sad story, we can all agree with that. That is probably why he wanted to become a dictator and become something in his life. After all he was a human despite what someone might say about him being the anti-Christ or a demon. Facts are that can happen to anyone and it's as simple as that. What exactly am I white washing or apologizing for?
1. I do not believe that Hitler hated the Jews, he used it as Propaganda to gain votes. Most parties were doing the same. That the Jewish Question ended up turning into insanity is something separate. Perhaps he actually began to hate Jews as the war developed but even Jewish magazines and Zionists praised Hitler for his peaceful approach in the 1930s.
2. Many Jews and POWs were evacuated from Germany willingly, accounts will contradict the massed killings at the end of the war but actual Jews (and Russians among others) have stated on camera that there were indeed SS men which tried to save them and evacuated them from the Red Army. Even if you go to the Jewish archive you will see many testimonies which contradict what is said about the Fall of the Reich.
3. Many people disregard that Concentration Camps were originally used for reeducation, it was not until the Invasion of Russia that deaths became a more frequent event.
4. One of Hitler's central tenets were that there was a Bolshevist conspiracy, while he used this to pass the Enabling Act the truth is that the Communists were very much threatening the new government. According to recent KGB files the Reichstag really was a Communist conspiracy. Facts are that previous to the massed Socialist arrests Hitler was against their arrest. It was Goering et al who took the initiative behind Hitler's back and culminating in the Reichstag fire.
5. The persecution of homosexuals has been highly exaggerated to suit somebody's agenda when in fact the Jews and Communists were targeted much sooner and in many higher numbers. That gays were indeed found in camps is a fact, but that they were found in extreme numbers or were all listed for execution or that they were treated horribly akin to Eastern front style, is actually false.
Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga
Yes Mishkin, I believe that German escalation of killings were directly linked to the threat that the war was putting on their existence. I do not believe that the Germans would have even used extermination had it not been for their defeats on the various fronts. If I recall there was no plan for the final solution until 1942 and all plans before that involved the deportation of Jews to the East.
Compare that to the Red Terror in both Russia and France; the closer the enemy the angrier the mob got and the more and more people the officials had killed.
Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga
March 29 shall be enumeration day for all!
1. I suppose it depends on whether he in fact hated Jews and if he did then when. Whether he was a scheming Machiavellian or an outright I hate Jews type guy is hard to say.
-We know that young Hitler's friends were Jewish, that Hitler was grateful to his mother's Jewish doctor (despite her death) and that Lieutenant Guttman gave Hitler an Iron Cross and Hitler later helped him immigrate (although I believe he may have returned and gotten arrested by the Gestapo or SS).
It isn't until he becomes an active politician that he starts to speak of Jews negatively, which was quite the vote catcher during the Depression.
-It has been reported that Hitler said something along the lines of "I have tried to save the Jews but now they will pay for the deaths of the innocents" or something of that sort and then we get the Final Solution.
-Who exactly is a Jew and goes to a camp is hard to say as well. It does appear that Himmler (or God really knows who) is in charge of the Jews. Unlike Robespierre, Hitler did not add names or even review any such Jew lists. If Hitler or Goering wanted to impede any person from going to a camp it became harder and harder as the war progressed. It is hard to say what role Hitler played other than that he was in charge.
2. Not according to these testimonies, these people are talking entire units and such evacuating Jews and camps, just go on the Jewish archives where you can find thousands of videos. Where it is said that the SS tried to kill as many Jews as possible but according to these testimonies it was not the case and many Jews were given the option to wait for the Red army or evacuate with the Wehrmacht or any SS units trying to get out.
3. Well the deaths were not accidental so I cannot say that they were accidental. But it is true when Papay said that deaths were relatively limited. Not wanting to go on the Iraq issue all I will say is that the amount of illegal acts committed by the USA are quite lengthy in fact.
4. Hitler did not want the arrest of like a third of the Reichstag (the Communists) when asked to do so he refused. Goering and company were probably already planning some sort of arrests when the Reichstag fire happened. According to the KGB it was not a Nazi scheme.
5. Gays who were lobying for more rights after the war sought to make themselves the primary victims and often exaggerated accounts, most of which have already been discredited.
Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga
The starving of the Spviet Union was a targeted genocide. Stalin's popularity remains mostly high among Russian people, but why is that? Simply because he used the Russians as his power base, Lenin may have said that there was no nationalism but he did create the Russian language as the official language. Stalin took it further and promoted what we might easily term nationalism among the Russians. In starving the Ukraine he rid himself of unwanted elements (also that were not particularly loyal to him) and he took that grain to feed Russian people and the majority of it was sold abroad to fund his new massive army.
Killed unloyal dissidents, gained Russian support, destroyed the dirty Kulaks and he funds world domination. The perfect plan.
I've never actually seen you say something bad about the Nazis/Hitler if it's not before a 'but' or equivalent. Either way I'm not going to say you're a neo-Nazi, you just make use of an awful lot of relativist revisionism in order to 'cure' peoples bias against Nazi Germany and Hitler, and so you commit apologism in the process.
Back on topic: You can only really shake your head at such a display. It's hard not to laugh at the judge's off-screen screeching buffoonery, but the actual content is pretty sobering.
Last edited by Inkie; April 26, 2014 at 05:00 AM.
Under the patronage of the formidable and lovely Narf.
Proud patron of Derpy Hooves, Audacia, Lordsith, Frodo45127 and Sir Adrian.
Primicerius
Re: Nazi court! I'd hate to stand trial here...
Call me Ishmael
Originally Posted by The Despondent Mind
Let alone one who can grill you like that.
大信皇帝
Comes Domesticorum
are you talking about? BS trials and death camps are no cause for celebration no matter who does it.
Praepositus
I thought no one would ever say this to Hellheaven. The white gloves are off...this thread is getting interesting.
Mayonnaise
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
