Nazi court! I'd hate to stand trial here...

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

You're right, this is what you said:
Soviet trials would be way cooler; shoot him first then put his corpse on trial.

Hey Inkie, what happened to the guy in Roma's video? He got shot right, yeah I think he got shot by the Nazis. Do you see the difference?

[Churchill was a murderer

he was, but this is an opinionated response

Considering how it was Churchill who started the Blitz.

Fact

There are lots of good qualities that Hitler possessed. Good leadership skills, hard work and the power of oratory are all traits that everyone could have, does anyone deny this?

People who admire Hitler are no different from people who admire Stalin, Mao or even someone like Winston Churchill, FDR or Alexander or Constantine. Difference is that it is socially unaccepted to admire Hitler, wait 50 years though.

And I meant what I said, in a few hundred years when no one cares about it anymore he will have plenty of admirers like other people who have killed and no one cares about it.

I could go on and on.

So is there anything there which I said was a fact that actually wasn't?

[AqD]

Nope, he won't have many admirers because he is a loser.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

That's probably the number one reason why he doesn't.

[Inkie]

Hey Inkie, what happened to the guy in Roma's video? He got shot right, yeah I think he got shot by the Nazis. Do you see the difference?

If you're making a point here, I can't see what it is.

he was, but this is an opinionated response


Fact

I could go on and on.

So is there anything there which I said was a fact that actually wasn't?

I'm not sure if you got what I was trying to show with those posts...

And I meant what I said, in a few hundred years when no one cares about it anymore he will have plenty of admirers like other people who have killed and no one cares about it.

He probably will! And they'll probably be the same type of people who admire him today

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

My point is that there is no difference, not sure what your point is but I think I just nulled it.

No I actually have no idea, seriously I don't.

Not necessarily. Of all the people that cursed Alexander in his lifetime we would be to assume that only expansionist Greeks would be Alexander fans and this is simply no longer the case. Why assume then that only Neo-Nazis will find something admirable about Hitler.

[Stavroforos]

Because any sane person will see how Hitler's negatives far outweigh his positives.

[Inkie]

My point is that there is no difference, not sure what your point is but I think I just nulled it.

My point is that the usual suspects started comparing and relativizing this Nazi court to its Soviet and other equivalents.

No I actually have no idea, seriously I don't.

Basically, you'll go to absurd lengths to be totally imbalanced in your assessment of various characters of WW2. Examples in your words:

Hitler: "he killed Jews and Gypsies (among others) but..."
Stalin: "The starving of the Spviet Union was a targeted genocide."

Hitler: "His entire life was an underdog struggle and that in itself is worth admiration. Hitler is an easy character to feel sympathy for, his parents died and he became a hobo. That's sad story, we can all agree with that. That is probably why he wanted to become a dictator and become something in his life."
Stalin: "A very difficult character to sympathize with. He wasn't particularly poor as hell growing up and he did little actual good in his country."

Hitler: "Hard-working, great leadership"
Churchill: "Murderer"

At every corner, in every discussion on the subject, one can find the usual suspects clawing around for as many arguments as they can find denying or glossing over negative acts or characteristics associated to the Nazis/Hitler, as if they're some kind of poor historical underdog that needs their image restored by throwing an impartial approach to history out the window. Let's take the example of Anders Breivik for a moment: Wouldn't you find it suspicious if, among the condemnation, a few people kept showing up claiming "sure, he killed people, but he had a tragic childhood with divorced parents and an abusive, evil feminazi mother, he was very intelligent and protected the bullied and an accomplished spray painter. Also as you can see he was an excellent marksman."

Not necessarily. Of all the people that cursed Alexander in his lifetime we would be to assume that only expansionist Greeks would be Alexander fans and this is simply no longer the case. Why assume then that only Neo-Nazis will find something admirable about Hitler.

You have gradually gone from "50 years", to "a few hundred", to over two thousand. If you want me to respond to that point, keep it consistent please.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I never said that anyone we are talking about was not a murderer.
As for the Nazi court thing, what difference is there between getting shot after or before a fake trial? We are discussing fake trials and never once in the history of this thread did I ever utter any phrases reminiscent of "Nazis were no where near as bad as the Soviets" or "Soviet trials were way worse than Nazi trials".

It does no matter 50 or a hundred or a couple hundred years, the point is people will stop caring and will forget about murders. Take out any lauded politician in history and that happens to be the case for the most part. My case in point in this example was Winston Churchill, no one remembers or cares who he killed and he is praised for everything else that he did. That is my example using a more recent figure.I guess it depends on political agendas as well though.

[AqD]

Because any sane person will see how Hitler's negatives far outweigh his positives.

It's not the goodness of humans that we admire, but the greatness.

[Mayer]

Actually Roland Freisler was just copying from soviet prosecutor Andrey Vyshinski, a imitator if you will
It was not for nothing that Hitler called Freisler "the old bolshevik" (for his past in Soviet Russia and his bolshevik tactics) and "our Vyshinski", he was there for the dirty work

The basic tenets of a nazi and a bolshi show trial are the same. The judgment is decided beforehand and the defendant is unable to change it. The purpose of the trial is to humiliate the accused in public, preferable by dehumanizing him.

Yeah, I doubt those Soviets ever called anyone a filthy louse at the top of their lungs with such fervor and style.

Let's have a quote of Vyshinki from the Zinoviev-Kamenev trial:
'Shoot these rabid dogs. Death to this gang who hide their ferocious teeth, their eagle claws, from the people! Down with that vulture Trotsky, from whose mouth a bloody venom drips, putrefying the great ideals of Marxism!... Down with these abject animals! Let's put an end once and for all to these miserable hybrids of foxes and pigs, these stinking corpses! Let's exterminate the mad dogs of capitalism, who want to tear to pieces the flower of our new Soviet nation! Let's push the bestial hatred they bear our leaders back down their own throats!'

That sounds quite intimidating.. albeit he didn't raise his voice as much.
I think Vyshinki probably wanted to sound more like a calm teacher, how Stalin preferred to give his speeches, whereas Freisler probably wanted to have the impact of a frenetic Hitler voice

This is only one of the long list of methods for suppression the NSDAP ('nazis') copied from the CPSU(b) ('bolsheviks') despite their different ideological premises.
But it wasn't a one-side affair, Stalin repeatedly praised Hitler in secret and adored how he how he dealt with opposition in the 1934 purge and attempted to surpass him with his Great Purge.

[Roma_Victrix]

Necroing this old thread from the dead to show the clip from Valkyrie I was talking about that depicts Roland Friesler, but only for a moment as Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben (portrayed by David Schofield) tells him "You can turn us over to the executioner. In three months the outraged and tormented people will call you to account and drag you through the filth in the streets alive":



David Schofield is great, should have been in more movies, totally killed it in his minor role as the scheming Senator Falco in Gladiator.

Roland Freisler was a notorious judge renown for his show trials. The fanaticism was probably due to the rumours he flirted with Bolshevism whilst a prisoner of war. Even Hitler dismissed him as 'That old Boshevik'. Those paranoid about having thought of as having dubious loyalties often bark the loudest.

That would help to explain it, and as Mayer relates below (in a post I never read until now), he even slightly copied the style of Soviet prosecutor Andrey Vyshinski, albeit with considerably more gusto and rhetorical flair.

Actually Roland Freisler was just copying from soviet prosecutor Andrey Vyshinski, a imitator if you will
It was not for nothing that Hitler called Freisler "the old bolshevik" (for his past in Soviet Russia and his bolshevik tactics) and "our Vyshinski", he was there for the dirty work

The basic tenets of a nazi and a bolshi show trial are the same. The judgment is decided beforehand and the defendant is unable to change it. The purpose of the trial is to humiliate the accused in public, preferable by dehumanizing him.


Let's have a quote of Vyshinki from the Zinoviev-Kamenev trial:
'Shoot these rabid dogs. Death to this gang who hide their ferocious teeth, their eagle claws, from the people! Down with that vulture Trotsky, from whose mouth a bloody venom drips, putrefying the great ideals of Marxism!... Down with these abject animals! Let's put an end once and for all to these miserable hybrids of foxes and pigs, these stinking corpses! Let's exterminate the mad dogs of capitalism, who want to tear to pieces the flower of our new Soviet nation! Let's push the bestial hatred they bear our leaders back down their own throats!'

That sounds quite intimidating.. albeit he didn't raise his voice as much.
I think Vyshinki probably wanted to sound more like a calm teacher, how Stalin preferred to give his speeches, whereas Freisler probably wanted to have the impact of a frenetic Hitler voice

This is only one of the long list of methods for suppression the NSDAP ('nazis') copied from the CPSU(b) ('bolsheviks') despite their different ideological premises.
But it wasn't a one-side affair, Stalin repeatedly praised Hitler in secret and adored how he how he dealt with opposition in the 1934 purge and attempted to surpass him with his Great Purge.

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing and apologies for only seeing this post now years later.

Unfortunately there are no such clips of this that I can find on Youtube, only stuff like this with him speaking at UN assemblies:

[AqD]

that's 7 years old! he's probably a rotten corpse already

Apology denied!

[ggggtotalwarrior]

I hereby charge you with 1 count of high treason and another of necromancy, Roma! The penalty is death!

[Akar]

I charge you with necrophilia

[Roma_Victrix]

I hereby charge you with 1 count of high treason and another of necromancy, Roma! The penalty is death!

What can I say except that I'm a filthy louse who's cracking under my own villainy for making allegations about murdered Polacks.

I charge you with necrophilia

We already talked about this. I never once visited your grandmother's cemetery. That's a lie, made up by British tabloids, the same ones who smeared Princess Diana! You'd believe them over me?

[ggggtotalwarrior]

All joking aside though reading how this thread developed from an absurd joke from you into seemingly genuinely debating the merits of Hitler is pretty ing wild

[Akar]

The dude built a lot of highways man

[Flinn]

Which he didn't anyways

[Roma_Victrix]

All joking aside though reading how this thread developed from an absurd joke from you into seemingly genuinely debating the merits of Hitler is pretty ing wild

The dude built a lot of highways man

Which he didn't anyways

Hitler just got posthumously pwned again and felt it from beyond the grave!

A shame, though, that Hitler pwned himself by suicide before he could be dragged into a courtroom, given loose pants without a belt, belittled and yelled at by a fiery judge the way Freisler yelled down at doomed defendants whose show trials were decided well in advance. While there are secret audio recordings of Hitler speaking in private conversations, we only have footage of Hitler speaking rhetorically in front of large audiences with his usual thunderous voice. Would be nice to see him looking all defeated and cracking under his own villainy, to steal a phrase from Freisler, before being sentenced.

The Nuremberg Trials were a serious, somber affair, though, nothing like the Nazi show trials. However, while many leading officials and officers were executed and given life sentences, many of those long sentences were commuted to ten or fifteen years, and some leading Nazis lived long happy lives afterwards, some of them into the 21st century. For instance, the Nazi medical doctor Fritz Fischer who died free and of natural causes in 2003. In the Judges' Trial of the Subsequent Nuremberg Trials of 1947, none of the Nazi jurists, lawyers, and judges were executed but some received life sentences and minor sentences. One must wonder if Freisler, had he not been killed in an Allied bombing raid of Berlin in 1945, would have also received a ten or twenty year sentence before being released and living into the latter part of the 20th century.

[Akar]

Which he didn't anyways

Wow, guess Hitler wasn't such a good guy after all...