WEF 3.0 19th-Century Iteration Planning Thread

[Xion]

von Wolfe for Tippecanoe? I think he'd still be around.

[Barry Goldwater]

Done.

[Agamemnon]

Eggers' son for some command in the War of 1812? Don't really care what command, even if it's a loss I can work it into his backstory. Trying to figure out dates though, he might be too old, in which case Charles will stay and fight the Trail of Tears if the years work out and his son will die at the Alamo, leaving his grandson. Will have to work it out, or no just put some Eggers in and I'll work out which. Also, yes, 1840s vote for me. I'd kinda prefer the revolution to be over/almost over already, since I've shown my ability to lead rebellions to be nil. On the fort's name, I think it should be Fort Amsel. Eggers is already going to have 45% of Texas named after him (take a trip to Texas and try to count how many times you see the name Houston).

[Pericles of Athens]

Assuming we go for the 1845 start I'll throw Willy Bohannon out there for the Andrew Jackson actalike position. They're both unrefined-racist-pauper-commoner-frontiersmen from Appalachia with military experience (in their respective Wars of 1812 no less) and expansion on the brain.

[chesser2538]

since it seems we are going for the 1840's start then I want to have a character inserted into the timeline for leading a Texas settlement in 1827, a few years after Austin . I'm still fleshing out the details but he will be the grandson of Matthew Thompson. He would also be a commander during the Texas war for Independence; earning honors at the battle of Gonzales. Following the 1836 victory, he settles into a life of politics. He switches around different offices in the newly formed Texas Republic. Thats as far as iv'e got for now. any ideas will help. My character is named Jake Thompson.

[jacb547]

I'd vote for 4 characters and also would like to put forward Theodore Braxford for JQA, he is a hardcore Federalist, and Matthew Braxford as Henry Clay, an ex-low Federalist turned Whig.

[Barry Goldwater]

Minor edit: I've realized that Rutledge's age in my notes makes him too young to be Senator in time to threaten Saker of MA on the Senate floor (born in 1798 so he's 21 in 1819, not 31, for whatever reason I thought he was born in 1788 and failed to recheck my notes ), so I've bumped that back to his dad. Don't worry though, you'll all get to see Ed Rutledge again real soon in a starring role, because guess who's going to become Governor of SC in time for the Nullification Crisis

@Agg In that case, why not have Eggers' son lead the relief of Fort Amsel? It's right in 1812. Gold was found in Indian territory sometime in 1828, so that's when pressure for Indian Removal will start exploding. I don't think keeping the Indian tribes as sovereign nations with the power to lock all white settlers out of their territory if they so choose is a sustainable decision in the long run - the demographics are too heavily skewed against them, their lands are too valuable for either mining or cotton-growing, and the state of Georgia & later Miss/AL will just keep coming at them in this case unless the feds want to militarily intervene against them and thus cause the ACW way too early for anyone's tastes - but if they can beat back the inevitable first Georgian attack and get the feds on their side, perhaps Eggers (as a white man raised by Indians, somebody all sides involved can work with) can help get them to compromise? While skulking around the AH.com forums I found an interesting idea - get the Five Tribes to accept US citizenship, and thus the full extent of the legal protection the fedgov can provide them, and essentially transform themselves into corporations so they can rent out parcels of their primo land to settlers (also, with the fedgov and SCOTUS as witnesses, the settlers can no longer pretend that the Indian definition of 'rent' translates to 'purchase' in the white man's eyes). This would be a bandaid solution that's bound to lead to mounting resentment against the 5CT planters & landlords from poor white settlers across Georgia to Mississippi, but it also lets them keep their lands and should guarantee an uneasy peace (outbreaks of violence being limited to the occasional murder of an especially envied Indian landlord or especially troublesome settler agitator) until the ACW breaks out.

@Chesser In that case, maybe Jake Thompson can become the Mirabeau Lamar to the Eggerses' Houston? That is to say, the chief of the Texan nationalist faction that opposes joining the USA and wants to drive out or exterminate Indians such as the Comanche instead of living peacefully with them.

@Jacb & Perry Aight, everything noted.

[Barry Goldwater]

So since the 1845 start is pulling ahead by a wide margin, I've gone ahead and done the rolls for the winners of the 1828 to 1844 elections.

1828: Whig victory
1832: Democrat victory
1836: Federalist victory
1840: Federalist victory
1844: Democrat victory

So it looks like our 1824 Democrat will become an early Grover Cleveland with the Whig playing Benjamin Harrison (unless for whatever reason he doesn't run in 1832), followed by a two-termer Federalist and finally a Democrat again at the start of the game. This opens up some new roles:

Daniel Webster: Our secondary Federalist leader, working together with JQA. A little more amenable to compromises to save the Union.
William Henry Harrison: Our secondary Whig leader, preferably a man with a military record. Will hopefully not die of stupidity-induced pneumonia any time soon
James Polk: Our starting President as of 1845. Must be an expansionist Democrat, just how expansionist (does he desire the OTL gains from Mexico? Maybe a bit more, ex. Sonora & Chihuahua? Or does he want everything between the Rio Grande and the Isthmus of Panama) is up to the player. Canada is still a wild card since that could have been annexed peacefully or forcibly after the Rebellions of 1837, so please put any thoughts of Northern expansion on hold until I roll for that.
William Lloyd Garrison: Our civilian hardline abolitionist advocate, could be an actual politician but at the bare minimum should run a major abolitionist press. Must believe in unilateral, uncompensated abolition of slavery, whether to be reached peacefully like the real Garrison or violently like John Brown & Gerrit Smith. Probably not going to be a formal player character unless whoever nabs this role makes him a politician, but still part of your characters' family.
James Hammond: The Anti-Garrison, a hardcore latter-day slavery advocate who absolutely believes slavery is good. May believe it's a civilizing & overall humanizing factor for the blacks, or fly right into 'it's also good for the wrong kinds of white people' territory like George Fitzhugh. Like the Garrison stand-in, he doesn't have to be a formal PC but more of an important NPC who crops up in the timeline & game now and then under his player family's control, unless you make him a politician like the real Hammond.
Sam Houston: A major leader in the Texas Republic and champion of the 'Unionist' faction that wants the new country to join the USA + good terms with the local Indians, such as the Comanche & Western Cherokee. Agg's already placed an Eggers in the running, but I need his name before I can post his tally.
Mirabeau Lamar: Rival to the above and champion of the Texas 'Nationalists', who want the country to stay independent & to beat up the local Indians or outright kill them all for their land.

[EmperorBatman999]

James Amsel could take up Tippecanoe I suppose.

Edit: Too late, damn!

[Barry Goldwater]

James Amsel could take up Tippecanoe I suppose.

Edit: Too late, damn!

Don't worry, Agg's just said he'd be cool with having our Fort Wayne named after Amsel instead so you still have that

[jacb547]

I already mentioned Gabriel Braxford being a writer so he could become Garrison I suppose.

[EmperorBatman999]

That's not bad, I suppose.

Also, is the Indian War battle I'm fighting right now still canon? I was hoping if Amsel succeeds that he could get more attention and bring the Indians to the peace table and lay out America's terms to the tribes. He, I was hoping, would lead the peace conference but take his demands from whatever Congress proposes.

[Barry Goldwater]

Yes, the game is technically over (has been since Friday) but we might as well finish what we started and use its results for the timeline.

[Xion]

William Henry Harrison: Our secondary Whig leader, preferably a man with a military record. Will hopefully not die of stupidity-induced pneumonia any time soon

Octavien Rondelle,his son, or a von Wolfe could fill this role? Octavien has a long naval record, his son will be involved in the navy and state militia of Louisiana for a time, and the von Wolfe will probably be involved in the army/state militia of Maryland/U.S. Military Academy.

[Barry Goldwater]

Alright, noted. A naval version of WHH might be interesting.

I've just talked to Fred on Skype, he also supports an 1845 start and has stated his interest in controlling the NPC Mexican forces so I don't have to, thereby relieving some of my own workload since now I'm just modding these battles So y'all might end up playing against him.

[Agamemnon]

Alright, the Sam Houston guy is going to be Samuel Isaac Eggers, son of Hiram W. Eggers, who will fight in 1812, lead a massive wave of immigrants to Texas (can he found the colony? I don't remember when it started) and die at the Alamo, son of Charles Milton Eggers, who will negotiate with the Indians and die peacefully shortly after. The birth dates just don't work out for Charles's son to take charge, so I'm going to have to find Samuel some combat experience somewhere. He's going to be born in 1810 I think, so I can't think of anywhere he could fight ATM.

[Pericles of Athens]

Since I remain the only Democrat (at least the only one actually in the states at game start) I'll put Andrew Wallace (John Wallace's son) as a candidate for Polk.

Character Role Votes
- T. Braxford for John Q. Adams
- F. Amsel for Henry Clay
- S. Eggers for Sam Houston
- Rose's guy (which ever one) for William H. Harrison
- G. Braxford for William L. Garrison

Presidential Elections
- 1st Federalist R. Braxford
- 1st/Only Democrat-Republican Eggers

[EmperorBatman999]

So I was thinking that the James Amsel line should stop and instead I should develop Fredrick's line.

[Barry Goldwater]

@Aggy Alright, solid. IIRC the first ~300 American settlers entered Texas with Stephen Austin in 1822 under the new, liberal immigration policies mandated by the independent Mexican government, which gives you 13-ish years to get settled. If Samuel is born in 1810, he'd be around 20 when the Trail of Tears is supposed to happen, and depending on the feds' actions or rather lack thereof he can help the Five Tribes fend off the Georgian state militia.

Which reminds me - everyone who is running for one of the presidential slots, please tell me what your character will be up to should they actually become President so I can write their actions into the timeline. Will they try to kill the Bank ASAP? Will they try to negotiate peace with Indian tribes out west? Will they do their damndest to antagonize Britain on ideological grounds? Will they abolish the slave trade on schedule (1807-8) or not? Etc.

@Perry ATM it looks like you & Chesser are running for the two same Great Man positions, so why not split it up? You're clearly in the lead for Wallace-as-Calhoun, so would you be up for keeping that and giving the seat of Jackson to Chesser's guy, or vice-versa? You can work this out between yourselves btw.

@EB Go for it, any ideas? Also, since our only Whig thus far who can be elected President by the America of the 1820s-30s is Fred Amsel AKA our Henry Clay, I suppose he's also our only candidate for the Whig one-termer 1829-1833, unless you really don't want it. In case you do want him to enter the running, see what I said above about outlining a presidential platform; chief among the things he'll have to deal with is whether he'd actually enforce the SCOTUS rulings favoring the Five Tribes or do what Jackson did & give 'em the finger via the Indian Removal Act, in addition to reacting to whatever the Democrat preceding him did (kill the Bank? I guess it falls to Amsel to rebuild it or pull a Tyler).

EDIT: The tallies in the OP have been updated.

[chesser2538]

I think that Jake Thompson can handle being Lamar just find . (i'm actually related to the guy, and also William B Travis)

As far as the split for roles with Perry goes, i'll take whichever of the two he doesn't want.