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Thread: Optional Unit Recruitment

  1. #1

    Default Optional Unit Recruitment

    This was moved from Faction Discussion/ Game Play Discussion.
    The Faction Discussion thread is only for the discussion of modifying the Faction of Spain. General discussion questions should not be in that thread.
    Please post all general questions and comments in the main forum or in the suggestion threads.


    Thank you
    PikeStance



    A suggestion, make rosters optional, one reason why i gave up on a mod and went back to vanilla and just edit myself
    is that it had so many units so it became very difficult to find and select a unit to conjure.
    (yet another unit with a 2 unit recruit limitation every half millimeter, as if i needed more)
    and altho i much prefer to auto-resolve, the difficulty was such that i had to fight some battles myself,
    and at least for me it helps if my units of for example line infantry is identical, for a more intuitive play.
    In my experience, most mods has berries that i like to a varying degree,
    and in an ideal world, everything would be sub-mods where i can cherry-pick which pieces i want.

    Does this mod have more factions and regions i can trade with ?
    Last edited by PikeStance; April 05, 2014 at 11:46 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Optional Unit Recruitment

    Quote Originally Posted by poa View Post
    A suggestion, make rosters optional, one reason why i gave up on a mod and went back to vanilla and just edit myself
    is that it had so many units so it became very difficult to find and select a unit to conjure.
    (yet another unit with a 2 unit recruit limitation every half millimeter, as if i needed more)
    and altho i much prefer to auto-resolve, the difficulty was such that i had to fight some battles myself,
    and at least for me it helps if my units of for example line infantry is identical, for a more intuitive play.
    In my experience, most mods has berries that i like to a varying degree,
    and in an ideal world, everything would be sub-mods where i can cherry-pick which pieces i want.

    Does this mod have more factions and regions i can trade with ?

    Poa you should read what the aim of this mod is about... we seek to be historically accurate. This means you recruit "types" of units not individual units like other mods do. As a result our queue will be quite reasonable. We will also have units that can only be recruited from specific areas (AOR).

    I honestly will never understand why you want to to play Total War series and NOT want to fight the battles. It the beauty of the game. (though it is shame they screw it up so badly, but I can remember the horrible days where autoresolve was all that you had).

    I do not know what you mean by "more factions and regions I can trade with" We do plan on having global trade have a greater impact on the economy of your faction; protecting your trade route would become even more important.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Optional Unit Recruitment

    With more regions and factions, i mean new extra nations, like the added nations that are in Imperial Destroyer mod,
    (gawd i wish i could extract the extra nations there !)
    quite a bit of more nations over at India, which directly thwarts the orange plague btw,
    Hetmanat nation in Ukraine, the native american indians have ports that enable trade with them.

    ed: On battles, it is safe to say that no man ever fought as much as i have in Shogun 1 TW,
    and i think it was heads, shoulders, torso arse and knees above ETW.
    I think there are several reasons for this
    1]# deployment zones, now i all of the sudden start already in engagement, but maneuvering start well before that IRL,
    and can do so in a game as well, (see STW)
    2] terrain, there is none in ETW, and that has implications on battle AI as well,
    back in shogun, AI would take up position on the high ground, if i was the attacker,
    and they would hold that high ground, it was me that had to advance and charge under unfavorable conditions.
    3] the fkn camera, why isnt it a tilted top-down camera that i can zoom out until i see the entire battlefield below !?
    they made this camera angle on the strategic map so surely it is compatible with the game
    4] the size value of the soldier has to be increased by 3x to get full value from the superior camera angle
    5] to be continued when i no longer have a hangover

    #1] in fact maneuvering start already on campaign map,
    especially when i reduce movement points on infantry almost in half,
    cut artillery above 12 lbs by more than half, and reduce cavalry movement points a bit too
    Last edited by poa; April 06, 2014 at 01:32 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Optional Unit Recruitment

    1- Deployment zones
    I am planning on creating a submod where you start well out of range and you need to march into position. Many battles were won long before shots were fired. Once we mod a better line of sight it will make spotting the AIs movement more difficult. This will make Dragoons, Light Cavalry, and horse artillery more important. So far, I can't find one that works. On thing that would have to be changed in the early period, all fixed artillery will have to be "unfixed" artillery and have them move painfully slower.

    2- Terrain
    I don't find them that uninteresting. The custom battle terrains are hopeless; I really do not like any of them.
    I did recently fight a battle where the AI took up a defensive position on a significant hill. It placement of its artillery was a bit odd, but I can understand why an AI would do it. I should had taken pictures. On the back side of the hill it placed barriers to prevent Cavalry charges and to slow down infantry advance. In the end, I won the battle with numbers, but its positioning cost me more men than the advantage in manpower should had dictated.

    Overall, I think my battle mechanics combines with darthmods group formations makes the battle more interesting. I think more tweaks is needed on my mechanics, but I am interested to think what other people think. So far, no comments. The group formations will also have to be tweaked to be more historically accurate.

    #1 Troop Movement
    We reduced the movement of the units. However, it needs to be balanced with range.

    Camera
    I like the camera better for ETW than Rome II. More angles would be better; but at least I can go quickly where I want to go... in Rome II I went all over the place; it drove me nuts. To each his own I guess.

  5. #5
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Optional Unit Recruitment

    Factions :
    We are limited with the number of factions we can use.
    As we didn't have been able to create true new factions, we have to use those already existing in game (but not necessarily used).
    It should look like this :



    Note this map represent emerging regions for factions, not starting locations for factions.
    Moreover, we will have to remove one faction or, at least, convert it to rebels, quite likely the Zaporizhian host.

    Units :
    First of all, I.S goal is to be as historically accurate as possible, but without destroying the gameplay.
    This means that we will not create "clone" armies using "generic" units.
    On the other hand, we will not add "all historically units".
    When working on faction units roster, we try to keep faction's particularism, but units are grouped by "types" such as "French line infantry fusiliers", "French line infantry grenadiers".
    On the other hand, we keep particularism such as "French line infantry petits vieux fusiliers", "French line infantry vieux fusiliers", "Gendarmerie de France" (heavy cavalry), etc.
    This is shown here :



    Moreover, the unit icon system should reflect this. Colors and symbols should help players to quickly find units :

    UNIT ICONS SYSTEM


    Grenade symbolized grenadiers.

    Some other symbol (work in progress) :


    Recruitment system :
    Our goal is to create a new recruitment system based on region.
    This means that the number of different units in building recruitment queue should be limited.
    On the other hand, the unit recruitment queue for general will be unusable.
    The new recruitment system should be similar to the one that Steph developed for Master of Europe

    MoE Recruitment System

    MoE recruitment system
    1. Homeland region :

      A region is necessary the "Homeland" for a define faction.

      Example :
      • Brandenburg and East Prussia are considered as Prussian homeland regions
      • France and Alsace are considered as France homeland
      • etc.


    2. National units vs Occupation/Allied units :

      National units are only available for the faction which they belong AND in faction's homeland regions.
      Occupation/Allied units are available for all faction except faction to which homeland belong.

      Example :
      French Line Infantry is only available for France faction and in France and Alsace regions
      Allied French Line Infantry is available in France and Alsace regions for all factions except France one.

    3. Regional recruitment and recruitment limits

      National and Occupation/Allied units are "cloned" per regions.

      Example :
      France region allow recruitment for "French Line Infantry {France}" and "Allied French Line Infantry {France}"
      Alsace region allow recruitment for "French Line Infantry {Alsace}" and "Allied French Line Infantry {Alsace}"

      French Line Infantry {France} and French Line Infantry {Alsace} are cloned units as well as Allied French Line Infantry {France} and Allied French Line Infantry {Alsace}.
      This means that is would be better to separate db tables : one for national units and one for occupation/allied units
      It would be easier to manage.


      National and Occupation/Allied units recruitment is limited to a define number.
      The global number is the sums of each regional limits.
      The global number is equal to 1/2 of the historical maximum availability.

      Example :
      France had had a maximum of 110 French line infantry regiments.
      The global limit will be fixed to 110/2=55 units
      This global limit will be divided up to French homeland regions :
      Limit could be fixed to 50 for France and 5 for Alsace

      Limit could be reduced for Occupation/Allied units, maybe to 1/3 of historical maximum availability for national units.
      Example :
      Allied French line infantry availability could be limited to 34 in France and 3 in Alsace


    Source : Napoleon : Masters of Europe (MoE), a new mod by l'Aigle and Steph


    I.S future Recruitment System

    I.S recruitment system
    1. Custom battles vs Campaign

      First, I propose to separate Custom Battles and Campaign units.

      Custom Battles units will be strictly restricted to the faction own historical roster and units will not be "cloned".
      Doing this, the Custom Battles pack will be useful to test units in game and will be use as a base to create Campaign Units packs.

      Campaign units will be separated in 3 parts : national units, occupation/allied units and aor units.
      National, occupation/allied and aor units will be create from Custom Battle unit pack by cloning db entries.
      Separating those 3 pack should help to avoid confusion in db tables.

    2. Custom Battles Units

      Custom battle units will correspond to the faction's historical roster and divide by periods (early/middle/late).

      Creating the Custom Battle Units pack will be the first step to add units in game.
      Custom Battle units will appears in Custom Battle only, never in Campaign.
      They will not have to be tied to building for recruitment.

      Once units had been successfully tested in game, they will be used to create Campaign Units packs.

    3. Campaign Units


      1. Campaign - National Units

        As done in MoE, national units will be available only in homeland region and only for the faction which they historically belong to.
        National unit will also be cloned per homeland regions :
        • French Line Infantry {France}
        • French Line Infantry {Alsace}


      2. Campaign - Occupation/Allied Units

        Occupation units will be create by cloning national units, except guard and elite ones and giving slightly lower stats (moral ?) than their national counterparts.

        As done in MoE, occupation units will be available only in homeland region and only for all faction except faction to which homeland belong.
        Occupation unit will also be cloned per homeland regions :
        • Allied French Line Infantry {France}
        • Allied French Line Infantry {Alsace}


      3. Campaign - AoR Units

        The main difference with national and occupation units is that AoR unit are not "regionalized".
        They are available through a regional area (one to several regions) and only have a global recruitment limit.

        Like National Units, limit will be fixed to 1/2 of max historical availability.

        They represent mercenary or foreign volunteers.

        AoR units can be :
        • "national" units (only available to the faction they historically belong to) such as foreign volunteers ;
        • regional/natives units (available for all faction occupying the region).


        example :
        • French Swiss line infantry : available only for France but AoR extended to west Europa (France, Spain, Italy, Germany) and limited to 5 units (approximatively 10 historically) ;
        • French German Line infantry : available only for France but AoR extended to parts of west and central Europa (France, Alsace, Germany) an limited to 8 (approximatively 16 historically) ;
        • Allied Bengali sepoys : available for all factions owning northern India and limited to ? units.



    This system should be extended to naval recruitment.

    1. Custom Battle Units

      Custom battle units will correspond to the faction's historical naval roster and divide by periods (early/middle/late).

    2. Campaign Units


      1. Region based naval recruitment

        Like land units, recruitment will be "regionalized".

        Region could be separate in 4 types :
        • Naval building level 0 : can only build small ships (brig, etc.) ;
        • Naval building level 1 : can build small ships and merchant vessels ;
        • Naval building level 2 : can build up to medium military vessels (frigate) ;
        • Naval building level 3 : can build all type of ships, up to the most complex ones.


        Only region with historical "naval building level 3" should be able to build the most complex vessels.
        This means they have an historical naval tradition.
        Those regions are, at least : England, France, Spain, Cuba, United Province, Denmark, Sweden, Ingria (only way to allow Russia to build big vessels), Naples & Sicily, Rumelia (?).

        Recruitment limit will be fixed per region.
        units will be separate in National Units and Local Units (equivalent to occupation units).

      2. Naval National Units

        Naval National Units will be available only in homeland region and only for the faction which they historically belong to.
        Recruitment will be fixed per region.

        Example :
        Spanish can build :
        • Spanish 80 guns first rate {Cuba} in Cuba if they have a naval base ;
        • Spanish 80 guns first rate {Spain} in Spain if they have a naval base.

      3. Naval Occupation Units

        Naval occupation units will be available only in homeland region and only for all faction except faction to which homeland belong.
        This is particularly important for factions unable to build ships, such as Bavaria or Saxony.
        If such faction occupy a sea region, they will be able to build local ships, relying on local "naval tradition".

        Example :
        Austria can build vaisseau de 80 canons {France} if they occupy France


    To sum up I.S Recruitment System we should create : Custom Battle Units, Campaign - National Units, Campaign - Occupation Units & Campaign - AoR Units








    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

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