Genesis Discussion Thread

[The Stig]

A place where we can pool all thoughts and resources related to the game

[The Stig]

This is Skjoldr's outline for the history of the Cradle. It seems to work with all of our cultures and I tend to like it, so I say we use it. Anyways, it can always be changed as we go along.

- Mankind was born, and the sun and the moon separated in the sky, creating the cycles of time.- History begins with the [Ancients]. The [Ancients] were the first humans to settle down, developed the wheel and year-round agriculture, a writing system, a calendar, and so on. The first cities were built, and civilization began.
- The culture is relatively low and simple, with only minor pottery, neutral figurines and representational art, and sun-dried brick architecture. Gods were of the land, fertility, war, and other simple concepts.
- The Bronze Age begins, further advancing civilization.
- The Collapse. The [Newcomers] arrive in the Cradle, bringing iron weaponry, chariots, and new ideas. The Iron Age begins.
- The result is a new culture advancing from the [Ancients] and the [Newcomers], advancing everything. Bigger cities, better technology; cosmopolitan culture begins.
- The Influx. Arrival of the [Foreigners] begins, with many varied groups of people moving into the Cradle and its outlying areas. Some come in and replace original inhabitants, some stay on the fringes. Culture mixes.
- The result is the further complexity of culture in the region, adding more variety and creating cultural 'regions' with ethnic associations.
- The [First Empire] is born, uniting much of the people of the Cradle under its warlike hand. It rises and falls in less than two centuries.
- Technologically and culturally, the [First Empire] only brings in new methods of warfare, but does not change any of the conquered peoples to any significant degree (unless any individual player wants to be).
- More importantly, it gives a wide swathe of different peoples the concepts of conquest, unity, and more regional association ("Persis is my homeland. I am Persian.").
- Now it's been quite some time since that, maybe a century or two.


[Ancients] - The first people to settle down and develop what classifies as civilization. We know little about them, just that they started civilization and basic things like writing and the wheel.
[Newcomers] - The second people to move into the Cradle. We define the Cradle and its natural culture by these people, who took what the Ancients had created and made it great and complex.
[Foreigners] - Any group of people who moved into the Cradle after the Collapse. They can arrive right after or long after, depending on how relatively different they are in nature.
[First Empire] - Basically the Akkadians and the Assyrians.

I see the native, Semetic/Arab/Middle Eastern, culture of the Cradle as essentially the result of the Newcomers out competing or interbreeding with the Ancients, while adopting the basics of the Ancient's culture and adapting it to the needs of the Newcomers. The Foreigners are a bit of a gray area. Depending on how people chose to define their cultures, these group can be a lot of different things. We should determine if the First Empire originated inside or outside the Cradle, since that would probably effect cultural dynamics with their neighbors. In any case they should definitely have a lot of horses.

[Dirty Chai]

It was intended to originate inside the Cradle and only to have ruled over most of the Cradle and regions that choose to be in their culture.
You can read them as the Akkadians and Assyrians.
Siege towers, archers, etc.

[The Stig]

Ah, I pictured them more as the Indo-Aryans during the migration into India or the Cimmerians, but I suppose the Assyrians make more sense given the whole unified empire thing.

[Dirty Chai]

Doesn't matter. It can be seen in many ways.
It's rather just intended to create the precedence of war and conquest in the Cradle.

Dravidians being replaced by Indo-Aryans on the Indus does make sense, though.

[Ace_General]

One thing I would like lore wise for indo-european barbarian newcomers(Slavs, Germanics, Celts to a lesser extent) is have some kind of common mythology of our own. Like have similar world creation myths and have the concept of the world tree and an All-Father god, thunder god, and ferility good. And have the Slavs and Germans refer to eachother as 'cousins' due to their similar religion and myths,physical appearance, and way of life, at least compared to the mostly semetic settled peoples and nomads

Also, so the world doesnt feel so empty outside of the cradle, perhaps I could furnish some Germanic and Celtic NPC tribes that players can trade with and invade or asborb.

[Xion]

Also, so the world doesnt feel so empty outside of the cradle, perhaps I could furnish some Germanic and Celtic NPC tribes that players can trade with and invade or asborb.

Perhaps this should wait until we have a map and place each culture's origin point outside of it?

As for the First Empire, I kind of thought of them as Assyrian from Sotha's description,but we could say this world's version of the Assyrians be a combination of historical Assyrians and another culture?

[Narf]

The culture I wrote would be one undisturbed by the people of the sea as they build their city up alongside the ancients. Maybe they are protected by mountain ranges or something.

[Ace_General]

The culture I wrote would be one undisturbed by the people of the sea as they build their city up alongside the ancients. Maybe they are protected by mountain ranges or something.

Then I must find them and go all bosnian serb

[Zectorman]

Should we look for a map to base this on first before we start talking placement? Will we use the one M started to choose not to long ago?

And Assyrians sounds about right. Im creating a new civ that is built off of the collapsed Mesopotamian civs. (Wasn't satisfied with my original)

[Xion]

Should we look for a map to base this on first before we start talking placement? Will we use the one M started to choose not to long ago?

Personally, I don't think we should use the map M selected as he may of selected that one based off the characteristics of his version of Genesis' pre-made civilizations instead of the player made ones. So there may be features like that northern island that we may have no usage for.

[Honors Bastion]

Should we look for a map to base this on first before we start talking placement? Will we use the one M started to choose not to long ago?

And Assyrians sounds about right. Im creating a new civ that is built off of the collapsed Mesopotamian civs. (Wasn't satisfied with my original)

I think that we will need to find a new map for this game. M's old map could work if we can't find a better alternative but I kind of think that it lacks a good area that would serve as a "Cradle" of an ancient civilization, although the southeastern portion may work. I just think that we need something that will accommodate the other culture mixtures (Eastern/Oriental ones) that this map seems to lack somewhat.

Also, here is M's map so that people don't have to go digging through the other thread.

M's Map

[Zectorman]

@Xion/Honors

Good point, if you want i can go diving into the internet to find something that works for us. Trying to find a map with a great middle with rivers and plenty of outside locations ?

EDIT:

Here are some I think are good so far.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Dirty Chai]

The map I envisioned was to be zoomed in on a Cradle of Civilization, which is usually a fertile valley area of one or more uber life-giving rivers.

I can make one? Just random mostly, but mixes the best of all the real world's Cradles (Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India)?

To compare, it would be like a map of the Near-East that has western Anatolia as its westernmost boundary, the Caucasus its northern boundary, Baluchistan its eastern boundary, the central desert of Najd being the southern boundary.

[Honors Bastion]

The map I envisioned was to be zoomed in on a Cradle of Civilization, which is usually a fertile valley area of one or more uber life-giving rivers.

I can make one? Just random mostly, but mixes the best of all the real world's Cradles (Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India)?

To compare, it would be like a map of the Near-East that has western Anatolia as its westernmost boundary, the Caucasus its northern boundary, Baluchistan its eastern boundary, the central desert of Najd being the southern boundary.

Yeah, I think making our own map would probably be best. The one that you have described seems applicable for most of our cultures although it may be a little weird for the Far-Eastern/Oriental based ones but that should be easily resolvable.

I will try to find one online but I doubt that we will be able to find anything that works perfectly with what we want to do.

[Zectorman]

@Sotha

if you would make one I would be most delighted, as it would suit our needs if it was personalized to this RP

[Dirty Chai]

Some mountain range(s) like the mountains at the western and northwestern ends of the Tibetan Plateau and the Tarim Basin could go along a part of the map, creating a strong geographical divide that could make it easier for players to justify Far-Eastern cultures?

By the by, LM and I have changed our culture idea.
I guess the Kushans would be a good comparison for the new idea, except as if they came from India instead of into.
Think: migratory Indo-Aryans with warrior castes and ancestor worship. And a thirst for conquest atop the backs of elephants.
Lots of slave-soldiers too. Many of our more recent dynasties are descended from slave-warriors, just like the many Turkic dynasties and later Mamluks of Egypt.
I suppose it's a result of having too many conquered peoples under your rule and enslavement. Ethnic gene pool changes, but the culture keeps going through indoctrination of conquered and enslaved peoples.

[Ace_General]

Also I would like north of the cradle to have huge forrests and a system of steppe and plains that spans almost the whole map to repersent the migration of the nomads and indo europeans

And I cnt really type today, I just silced open two of the tips of my fingers

[The Stig]

It's worth noting that the Foreigners originated outside the Cradle itself, and migrated to the region at some point during the world's history.

[Dirty Chai]

You can see them arriving in waves, beginning after the Ancients and the Newcomers had become the same entity.
This represents arrivals of all non-Mesopotamians (with the exception of Narf's culture). Some arrived half a millennium ago, some just generations ago.
They can come from any direction really, as this just represents the migrations that began with the Indo-Europeans and other groups sometime after Sumerian civilization was founded.

The Newcomers represent both Hittite invasions AND peoples like the Kassites who came into Mesopotamia and changed the ruling elite but adopted local culture completely.
So in that regard, the Newcomers are technically just the First Foreigners.

The First Empire likely fell apart from migrations, by the way.
When it was alive, it probably protected against them pretty well.

You should probably start making up ethnonyms and designations for these groups.